Math Talks and Whiteboards with Summer Miller
12 Summer Miller
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[00:00:00] On the road with trust based observations. Today I have with me Summer Miller and I was in Yakima, Washington, the first schools that I did my home state, which I'm always so proud to say, just last month. And I was in Summer's second grade class and I just thought there was a lot of brilliance going on that we're going to talk to, talk about in a minute.
But before we do that, Summer, why don't you introduce yourself, maybe tell them a little bit about who you are, how you got into teaching, maybe your background, if you had a special mentor, teacher, whatever they got to do, whatever you want to share.
All right, yeah, so I'm Summer Miller. I've been teaching, oh, this is year eight now.
I taught four years in kindergarten, and this is my fourth year teaching second grade. I've been only at two buildings within Yakima. This is my first year at Robertson Elementary though, and so far I've loved it so much. It's the best school, I think. What got me into teaching, it just kind of fell in my lap when I was in college, wasn't sure what I wanted to [00:01:00] do, and my mom was like, you love kids, you love working with kids, you do a great job with all your nieces and nephews, which I have an abundance of, and so I just kind of started taking classes, and I really did enjoy it, and I really enjoyed getting into the classroom during my practicums and my student teaching, and it just kind of Fell into my lap, I guess.
I was very lucky
that once you started doing it, you liked it. Your mom was right. Yeah.
Yeah, she was right. Were you resist? She knew her daughter, .
Were you resisting at first when she told you
I was? Yes. . I was like, what? But it's been great. ,
the hard part's. Admitting that your mom was right. .
I know. Now I'm like, I get it, but.
I know, I know, I know. Um, Super. Well, listen, the day we were in there was second grade and it was math, and I think we had just missed your number talk. But I think things that really stood out to me that day were just One, every time you ask a question, or almost every time, because you're on the whiteboards, [00:02:00] every kid is having a chance to answer slash solve the equation, and as people that listen know, I always say, Spencer Kagan's favorite line to me is, why ask a question and have one kid answer, when you can ask a question and have all kids answer.
So, Why don't we, I mean, I know it's not that uncommon to, to see people using whiteboards for math and having every kid solve them, but I see it a lot where it's not that way. And, and so you want to start just with that and we'll take, we'll move forward from there.
Yeah, so in my classroom, every student has one of those whiteboards where you can like insert the papers into and during math, they have a math whiteboard.
And then we have just a plain whiteboard that we use for, for ELA as well. Um, And it has a place value chart in it and I can randomly throw in like a couple weeks ago, we threw in like a graphing chart so they can just have a place to work and make mistakes because it's easy to erase, unlike having that piece of paper where they can make mistakes and then they get, you know, stuck on erasing forever.
[00:03:00] So, yeah. So,
You know, I actually, that's the first time I've heard anybody talk about the whiteboard, and, you know, there's probably teachers out there going, Craig, you don't know about this, but the first time I've heard, like, basically what I'm hearing you say is, you've got a graphic organizer built right into your whiteboard.
Yeah,
so it has like, it's kind of like, you know, like page protectors, the clear page protectors.
Yeah.
That you can, it's something like that, but it's meant to be a whiteboard. So they can insert any paper into it and it can instantly become a whiteboard. I'm not sure.
Okay. I love it. Did you get that idea from someone else or did you come up with that one?
Ever since I started teaching, we've always gotten page protectors with our math curriculum and they don't withstand the test of, you know, Kids. So I bought with classroom funds the whiteboard ones that are much more sturdy.
All right, so you just took it and raised it up a level.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
Well, and [00:04:00] it's, they love them cause they've got the, I mean, they've got the, some of the things that help them, but their strategy is right there at their fingertips instead of having to go and, and look on that anchor chart that's on the wall. And for some of our kids where that's, you know, where attention can be more of an issue, boom, it's right there.
So that, that helps with that. So that makes sense to me. I love it. So when, when you, when you do that, and one of the things that you were talking about is your, is your number talk and, and them taking ownership. So do you want to, do you want to maybe just jump into, into that? Yeah.
So with number talks, every kid gets an opportunity to just kind of blurt out their answers, whether they're solving mentally or on their whiteboard.
And then they come up and either present it on the board or I let them, they articulate it to me and I draw it out on the whiteboard for them with, with whatever math equation it is. And it really allows them to realize that like, there's many different ways to solve one math equation. I might think about it differently than the person next to me.
And. They're really able to acknowledge that you can make a [00:05:00] ten different ways, or you can use your doubles facts, or your near doubles. So, the kids are able to do that throughout that number talk. (ad here) So,
one of the things I heard you say was, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit on, because you said, I allow them all to blurt it out, but it's really, you've got a lot of classroom management built into the way that you do that, right?
It's not just randomly blurting it out. Yeah. So, why don't you share on that, because I think that's an important element of the success of it, is the way that you built that, that strategy into it.
So. It starts from the beginning of the year. We have our rules of how we do number talk. So, every kid gets time to process whatever the equation is.
Say it's 46 plus 7, and they process it on the whiteboard. They see it, we read it, and then they process, and they think, and give me a thumbs up once they have their answer in their brain or on their whiteboard. And then I'll go, okay, three, two, one, and end. Everybody blurts out their answers, and they've known since the beginning of [00:06:00] the year that we practice this that if I will write down any answer on the whiteboard, right or wrong, doesn't matter.
And so then they know that, oh, they're not going to say, oh, so and so got it wrong. So and so got it wrong. Because they know we're going to process through this and the kids who may have got it wrong are eventually going to be able to. Maybe they process out loud with the class and they really are able to be like.
Oh, I made that mistake there. I forgot to add that extra 10 or a 1 there. Yeah.
No, no, you're, you're giving me so many different things at once. So, I mean, I hear you saying things like, one, we're setting up expectations, clear expectations at the beginning of the year. For one, how we solve something. But even then, For how we react on terms of a social emotional respect level for all of our students where if somebody gets it wrong It's it's respect.
It's not that kind of a thing, right? Yeah, and and then I hear you talking about Providing thinking and processing time [00:07:00] which is so important when we get in quite doing asking questions And I just think You know, when I'm on the road as much as I am observing teachers, that's an area that generally, and I know people hear me say this, but I want us to get better at it, purposefully providing thinking and processing time is super, super important.
One, like you're saying, so I can get everybody's answer, not just those kids that are quicker with their processing, but it just allows everyone the opportunity. And then I'm well, let's let's pause there. Anything you want to add to any of that?
No, I don't think I think you got it. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
and then so then you're, you're, you're doing formative assessment checks and so then you're having everybody blurred out all at once.
So, and then you're writing, I know you're not hearing 25 answers cause that's not the way it works, but, but you're hearing multiple answers. How are you able to like get all those answers? Cause you write them all down. I was watching that.
Yeah. I mean, I hear most [00:08:00] of the kids are usually saying the same answer.
Right. Then there's the few, you know, who I'm expecting. Usually, you know, they don't, don't always get it correct the first time because they need a little more process time, or maybe they heard their neighbor say something. So they're just trusting their neighbor. But I really, when doing number talks, my mentor who has helped me over the last three years, he's worked in my classroom a lot, he has always been like, call on the kid who did the wrong answer and have them process it out loud and so they can explain how they got there.
So, it's kind of like, I'm always listening for those ones more than the correct ones. You're listening more for the wrong
answers than the correct ones. Which also means your knowledge of individual students, because I have a sense of the ones that are going to take longer to get there as well. So, and then you're saying, and you're giving them the chance to process it out loud, was one of the other things.
I want you to talk about two things. [00:09:00] One, having them process it out loud, the kids that got it wrong, but then also, I want you to talk about it in terms of how are you creating a safe space so the kids that got it wrong are willing to talk about it? Like, how do you get that kid that gets it wrong semi regularly to know it's okay?
Yeah so for them to process it out loud, I am. Either I've called kids up to explain on the whiteboard that you saw that day. So you saw one of my kids, one of my students come up and she taught the class how she did it. And as she walked up, I tell her, I'm like, okay, remember you're the teacher. Here's my teacher marker.
You have to talk out loud how you solved it. So they're really knowing how to explain their thinking. And that's number talks has also helped them throughout the year to be able to do that. And I also do a lot of think alouds as I'm. solving equations. So they see a lot of the teacher model that way throughout the school year.
Sure, modeling and then involving teaching others where the students are [00:10:00] jigsawing it out to to their peers in essence.
Yeah.
Yeah. And
I've also, we do, we've done that a lot, like in partner talks, they partner share with their neighbor on how to Solve equations or, Oh, I'm like, I always tell them, go check your neighbor.
And so they check their neighbors and a lot of them become the little teachers in that moment, because they are strategically paired to teach them how, Oh, well, you missed your tens here. You're supposed to regroup that and bring that over or take away that extra one or whatever it may be. And I think it's just become a safe space for that because.
It's something we've done since the first day of school, and there's been, like, I don't, the beginning of the year, I don't really encou force, I guess, those kids that got it wrong to share, over time, they kind of start wanting to share. It just, it kind of happens naturally as the year continues on. Get that confidence within each other.
Confidence and
trust in the class and you grows with time. Cause [00:11:00] trust takes time. You know, it's the trust based observations guy. I know a little bit about that.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, just throughout the school year, it's just kind of embedded. Cause number of talks is three to four days a week, usually in my classroom.
And so they're really, really used to the routine and they know I'm not going to be like, you got it wrong. They never know they're going to be, they don't, they know they're never going to be ridiculed, I guess. Or. Told they're wrong or this, they're, it's, they know they're gonna be guided and supported and kind of helped along the way to get to the correct answer if they were wrong.
And, and I think part of that is, is the heterogeneous grouping with the partner shares. So when I can share in a safe also you build the expectations for how we share appropriately and correct respectfully in that. And so then when I can share on a one-to-one level, it becomes a little easier, I would imagine with time to share in front of the whole class.
Yeah, and it's really kind of throughout the year been scaffolded that way. [00:12:00]
Mm hmm. Well, talking about scaffolding well, let's come back to scaffolding. I just, so one of the things that we talked about before we went on air is just failure and and like respect and out loud processing and that ties a little bit more to that.
So because we're still in that area, can you just talk a little bit more about like failure as opportunity, not failure as wrong? Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, so like failure is an opportunity to learn more.
Right, as opposed to, oh, I got it wrong. I mean, I know as a shy kid, I would get something wrong and I would just like, oh my god, I just, I would turn red and not want to, and you've, you've transformed that into something else.
Yeah, I mean, I guess they know they're not, they might be wrong, but they're going to be shown and helped to the right way to solve the equation, I guess, if that [00:13:00] makes sense. And I make mistakes all the time in my teaching, like there was, I swear there was a week there where I solved an equation wrong every single day.
And my class was like, Mrs. Miller, you did it wrong. I'm like, guys, I'm human. I make mistakes as well. And so they see me constantly making those mistakes and they're helping me sometimes, you know? And so I just think they've realized it's not, you know, It's not about right or wrong, it's how can we learn from that mistake and move forward and do better next time.
You know, on our on the, on our forum, the Observation Forum under Relationships and Management, one of the things that we have is teachers sharing mistakes. Cause it is just so valuable when we can share our own humanity and flaws, it's like not a bad thing. So it's taking that stigma of getting it wrong away from the kids.
When I'm modeling that it's not, it's not, it's not a horrible thing. It's an opportunity. I love it. So, and they're like genuine
moments. Yeah,
because there's [00:14:00] two kinds, right? There's the kind where you make, you make the mistake. Oh, I can't believe I did that. But then there's the kind where you're like, oh, dang, I did it.
I really got that wrong.
Let's, let's talk about scaffolding, like in the class, like we were, you were doing a problem. You know, these are second graders, so you're going from single digits and different, different solutions and different ways you identify things to, to double digit. So like one of the ones that we were in there was, cause I just thought the scaffolding of it was so blissful to watch was it was the one problem was four by five.
And then you would like, I don't know what you planned it before, but it act like you were like, Oh, Hey, I thought of something. I think you were doing that on purpose, but it was then I'm going to challenge you then what about 24 plus 15? And like, do you want to talk through how that whole process and what that's about?
So, I've number talks, I kind of mesh number talks, math conversations, all those together into my instruction every day. And so I always [00:15:00] plan. We've been learning a lot about our addition strategies, like making a 10 doubles plus 1 adding 0, all those different addition strategies. And so I'll do 4 plus 5.
That's the basic, simplest 1. Okay, so 4 plus 5, that could be solved with doubles plus 1. If you know how to add five and count forward, a lot of them just know some of those quick facts within 20. And so then I will
always Close to a 10 pairing, all that kind of stuff. Yeah,
So then in my head, I'm always like, okay, now I want to see if they can relate that to the next problem.
Because a lot of the times, you teach these addition strategies, and the kids don't really take it outside of that box. They don't take it to larger numbers. So then I'll be like, okay, here's a challenge. How can you use these strategies to solve this one? So, like you said, 24 plus 15. So there's 4 plus 5 right in there.
So then how can they solve that using that? 1 of those addition strategies we've learned, so [00:16:00] it is planned and I do kind of always come off, you know, here's a challenge. To make it more exciting, but
And you act like it's spontaneous, too, which is great, like, Oh, hey, guys, okay, well then, let's try this, right?
I love that, too. You know,
teaching is an act. You become a really good actor.
Tell me more about that.
Teaching is an act.
And you become a really good actor.
Yeah, I mean, you're always coming up with Everything on the spot. You got to just, things happen and you go on the fly and you got to basically dance so they pay attention to you all, you know,
so, but you're not saying, and I'm not, I'm not planning on keeping my lessons up.
I've watched your lesson well enough to know that that's not the case. When you're saying on the fly, you're talking about, you're talking about engagement, interest, drawing them in.
Yeah, it keeps them engaged. You gotta be funny, you gotta [00:17:00] have, you know, those little things that get them engaged, you gotta kind of understand what they're into, so I'll randomly bring up things that they like, that they, I hear them talking about to get them engaged.
You know, because if they're listening and they're like, oh wait, what Mrs. Miller's talking about, whatever it is they're into this week. Yeah, that
pulls, I mean, what do you think, I mean, that's a good differentiation strategy too, is like, especially that reluctant learner, how do I pull them in? And then energy too, I think, don't you think, when I watch your class, I mean.
Yeah, you got to keep the pace going.
Yeah, but even your energy as you're doing it, I mean, you're, you're, you're fired up there and you're moving and you're, you're, you're, And you're doing all that as you do it too. Well, as you were talking a little bit more about, you distracted me a little bit in a good way about teaching as an act.
Or but also what you're talking about when you're talking about the 4 plus 5 into 24 plus 15 is, I mean, knowing something in isolation isn't really understanding it, is it? And, and when you can get that synthesis, Where you can move into a [00:18:00] different context and still have them understand and then be able to solve it.
Then that's understanding, right? Then that's where real world value comes in. And so seeing that was really nice as well. Why don't we jump into summer formative assessment? Cause you were, you were checking your kids constantly. I mean, you are looking at their work on those whiteboards constantly. You're having the kids come up and talk constantly when you're having the kids solve the problems out, the ones that got it wrong, you're listening to the way they talk, and then you're providing descriptive progress feedback.
And so why don't you just talk to me a little bit about your work in that area? Because it's so, so strong to me. So like
we talked about earlier is every kid has a whiteboard. So I'm constantly circling as they're working and, you know, monitoring who's doing what, and I, there are my few focus kids that I have placed that I'm always like reaching to and heading to.
I mean, it's almost differentiated. I go to them first because I know that that's maybe where we're [00:19:00] more likely to. I check their work first. Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, they're that lesson. They were responding using place value charts. So they had their hundreds, tens and ones chart on their in their slid into their little whiteboard.
So they had that little graphic organizer, you know, to support them. On solving the equations I walk around, I monitor, I'm giving them, I'm questioning them instead of, you know, just telling them. No, you forgot to do this. I'm always like, okay, well, maybe recount or how can you go check that 10 place value?
Or should you have. Bundled there or not bundled. When do we need to bundle or, you know, carry that 10 over to the next place value or whatnot.
(ad here) So, and I'm hearing a few things I'm hearing 1, you're, you're letting everybody answer all the problems initially. So I can get a sense of where each individual student is and.
So I didn't see it, but there's two main ways that I've heard you talk about this. Well, one I saw is the whiteboard. So I'm seeing [00:20:00] everybody's work, but I imagine when the kids are doing the partner talks, you're probably listening into each group over time too and, and, and
doing
the same thing in the same way.
So I'm, I'm really, really getting a sense of what each student is understanding and not understanding. And then as you're monitoring, whether that's circulating around the room or whatever, you're using different strategies, but it sounds like. Whenever you can, and sometimes it's okay to use, I mean, we talk about basic where we're giving them the answer when they're just a little bit off task and it gets them on track.
Instructional, kind of going over the instruction, but coaching when you're asking the questions to get them to get the answer on their own. And it sounds like you're aware of a sense of when to use each one, but with a sense, correct me if I'm wrong, that whenever possible you're trying to use questions to get the kids to get the answers on their own.
Yep. Yeah, I really questioning them. It's been a huge when my first few years of teaching questioning was not my greatest [00:21:00] strength. So it's harder this area. It's hard, it still is hard at days, you know, and so it became a focus area. I worked with my admin on and my instructional facilitator on those years to really, like, get better at it.
And realize when it's necessary and when it's not necessary, or, you know.
Because our default is to either give them the answer or go over the instructions again, right? Yep. Mm hmm. And not that that's wrong,
yet, and there's times when it's appropriate, yet, there's no question that it's always going to be the most powerful when they can figure it out on their own, right? Yeah,
and sometimes it's not the whole class. If it's the whole class, yeah, going over instructions again. It's vital. That's different. Yeah.
But I'm really like paying attention. Okay. Is it how many kids, you know, is it just this one student who needs a little extra guidance and what questions can I provide them to lead them in the right direction, I guess. For their learning.
So you're, you, what you, what I hear you [00:22:00] saying is you're is, you're tracking EE every time you're doing something, you're tracking it and I'm, I'm, I'm looking on, on the, on the micro and the macro level at the same time.
So I'm looking and I'm saying who's not getting it and who's getting it, but I'm also saying is. Are the majority getting it or the majority not getting the majority aren't getting it? Whoops. I must have missed something. I need to go back and reteach it. So that's instruction again. And then if it's just a small amount or an individual, then it's, it might be a reteaching again, but it also might be like, oh, how do I get them where they're at?
Like, if I ask the right question, that will get them there.
So when you ask, when you ask a student a question and by the way, I love that you're tracking all those things at once, right? That's a, that's a lot of balls to be juggling in the air is like, are they all getting it? Who's getting it? Who's not getting it? Okay, now what do I do based on that? Do I have to go to giving instructions again, or just a small group, or helping an individual student, or a group of individual [00:23:00] students, or do I need to pair up some individual students while I'm working with other individual students?
You know what I mean? That's why teaching's hard. It's all of that at once to be really, really strong. So, you talked about your coaching and admin working with you early to help you. Because the default is to give the answer or give instruction. Do you talk about that process from going from primarily using basic and instructional to building in coaching as your primary, whenever you can, and how that evolved and developed?
Yeah. Oh yeah. So, I mean, my first year teaching was not a walk in the park by any means. I mean, I don't think any teacher
has a, yeah. Yeah.
And I mean. Yeah, Kindr is just its own whole ballgame. But so questioning it, I just, I wasn't doing it well, I guess, I and so I worked, [00:24:00] there was high level ELL population and so getting them to, like, another questioning is supporting that and then providing all those extra sentence starters, all those things and stuff on top of it, I didn't, I guess, during my observations, my admin was like, You need some support here.
So I would get observed and then follow up with my instructional coach at the time. And she, she's a phenomenal person who provided me with a lot of support. We would backwards plan, we would pre plan all those questions that might come up or the things that would come up with kids, I guess, and then pre plan questions to ask those kids.
within each lesson. So it was just a lot of, I guess, pre planning on my part, what questions to ask when to ask them, how to ask them to make, to hit that deeper level of thinking. Rather than just like, you know, touching the surface. And I guess it's just kind of [00:25:00] become embedded in what I do is I just am now questioning
a lot because you, you worked hard at it for a long time.
So now, you know, when you might still pre plan questions, but you don't have to do it in the same way where you originally did. I, I absolutely love hearing that your work with your coach. Your instructional coach really was like, okay, where are they making the mistakes? And so when they're making the mistakes, let's actually think ahead to like, instead of giving them the answer or giving the instructions again, let's create the questions ahead of time to get them to solve it on their own.
And like actually writing and developing those and whether you had them in your head from that or would you carry them with you as a reminder, I don't know. But I just like, It's just so like teaching is hard and we can't just rely on our instincts to get us by. We have to work hard and plan to, and I want you to have work life balance, don't [00:26:00] misunderstand what I'm saying, but, but to get from being a basic and instructional person to coaching, it doesn't just like, Oh, well now I'm just going to start asking questions.
It takes hard work.
It really does. And you have to like, think about what lesson what's happening and what are those. The right way to phrase the question and everything. There's just a lot to it.
And we're just, I mean, we're just talking math right now. We've got four different subjects that we've got to do it with.
And over time it gets better. Like, how long do you think it took from when your coach started working with you to where you felt like,
I think I got
this?
I think it just happened naturally over time. The more practice, you know, as the years went on. Once I came into second grade, teaching second grade, that's when I really think I got my groove.
And realized, okay, this is the grade level I love. Like, I love second grade and I think it's my, you know, area, I guess. [00:27:00] Yeah. And I really think it really kind of happened then because teaching kindergarten was amazing and any kindergarten teacher is an amazing human because they're a special
breed.
Agreed, agreed, agreed. Yeah.
And it's hard. Like, those little people. Yeah, that was hard. I learned so much, and I think it transformed me when I moved to a grade level that I truly love teaching. It
clicked and fit a little bit better for you as well. Well, really it goes from, go ahead.
I think just having that experience made me a better, have better classroom management.
Okay.
If you can teach and do classroom management in kindergarten, you can teach and do classroom management at any level. It doesn't work the other way going down as it does going up. Anybody that's in kindergarten knows that. I, so really what I hear you saying in a way coming back to that question is, it's like, I know when they talk about like, I'm a big sports person, like at first when somebody's playing a position, they're thinking about it, so [00:28:00] they're reacting more slowly.
But after a while, I'm not thinking about it, it's just starting to come naturally and that kind of stubs. Similar to the evolution with that to you. Yeah, use of coaching. Last questions. I love it. Summer. This has been awesome. I, I, I, I get so excited to having these talks and I just, I could keep going on forever, but they tell me I have to keep podcasts at 30 minutes.
So, what I'd love to do, if you're willing to, just in case somebody wants to reach out, would you be willing to share, like, your, your, your email or a social contact? So if anybody wanted to reach out and maybe learning from you, they know how to access you.
Ah, I have email. I'm not on social media, but
Bravo.
Yeah. .
Do you wanna share that out with the audience?
Yeah, my email is s wheatley, so W-H-E-A-T-L-E-Y zero eight thirteen@gmail.com.
S Wheatley, W-H-E-A-T-L-E-Y zero eight [00:29:00] thirteen@gmail.com.
Yep.
Got it. Okay. That'll be in our show notes too. Summer, thank you so much. It was a joy being in your class and it was I think even more of a joy for me today to get to, to speak with you about all this great stuff you're doing.
So thanks a million.
Thank you so much. It was great learning from you as well.
Take care. Bye bye.
Bye.
