20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

Ted (Intro Outro Man): Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with Trust Based Observations.

Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of Trust Based Observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations.

Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers, learning what they do that is so impactful.

We hope you enjoy.

Craig: Hi, and welcome to a bonus edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations.

When I was interviewing Rose Picard afterwards, we ended up talking more just about the observation process, and which happens quite a bit, but for some reason or to talking afterwards about something.

This time though, I decided to record it and I thought it was worth sharing out.

So what you're gonna see next is Rose and I chatting after our podcasts are here next.

So hope you enjoy.

No, but it's but you said something really interesting and we just ran outta time.

Otherwise, I would've brought it up during the actual podcast because I try and cap it around 30 minutes.

But you talked about your first three years having a principal that was really supportive in there, and then you had two years where you had a principal that wasn't really there, and then you really missed that ability to grow and feel supported.

And so I'm curious like.

After just experiencing a round of, I know we talked about a little bit before, but just a little bit further, just like trust-based observations versus the experiences you've had.

Rose Picard: So my first principal, as I said, he was a fabulous man.

He was the kind of principal like.

He literally didn't have an office.

He literally just carried his laptop and just went classroom to classroom and just sat in the classroom.

Like the kids knew him, the teachers knew him.

He, you know, he was involved in our lives.

Me being a first year teacher, he came by my class every day at five o'clock and told me to go home because he is like, it'll wait.

Go home.

Like, have your life outside of school.

And, you know, he was just, he was always a. What can I do for you?

He was the servant to his staff and, you know, we felt really invested in, and that was really nice.

But his observations he would he would come in and he was always in the class, so you never knew if he was observing you or not observing you.

Like you, he would just be in the classroom.

But he would just.

He would say, Hey, your observation went great.

I love what you're doing.

Keep doing what you're doing.

Keep showing up.

And you're like, okay.

And then HID would send us like a little, did you meet with your person?

And he would say, just click yes, and that would be it.

So as, as much as I loved feeling like so trusted and like, man, I really am nailing this first year teacher thing, I know I wasn't.

I know there was things that he could have told me I wasn't doing well.

And I feel like it was almost like a missed opportunity.

Yeah, so that was like my first three years.

My second set of years.

I mentally, I just split them.

I spent two more years there.

But those years I had another principal and.

She was never, ever in our classrooms.

The kids did not know who she was.

She came in, you know, after like, you know, an anonymous survey, like what do you want your principal to do more?

You know, people are just like, be in our classroom, say hi, like, come meet our kids.

She came into my room and told me my diffuser smelled nice, and then she walked out and she didn't come back again.

Craig: She say?

Rose Picard: my diffuser, you know, like the smelly

Craig: Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Rose Picard: Yeah.

It smelled nice.

And that was it.

And I was like, cool.

Thanks.

And then, you know, so when she was in your room, you knew you were being observed.

But again, it was more, you're doing great.

Don't quit.

Don't leave.

HISD.

That was a lot of the conversation.

And I just, I didn't feel invested in when I left, she didn't know my name and I worked with her for two years.

I literally left and she was like, good luck you.

And I was like, thank you so much.

So glad I spent time here.

Yeah.

So it was just like all that change and then just feeling, I mean, ignored and just like.

I was a warm body and I didn't, you know, so professionally I definitely grew, 'cause I was working on my masters, so I was still getting feedback.

I was still getting observed all the time.

'Cause I was, you know, video, I was recording lessons and I was sending 'em in and we were peer reviewing and stuff like that.

So I was still getting stuff like that.

But I was getting it from, you know, a stranger that lived in El Paso.

I wasn't getting it from the principal.

Four doors down.

And then I came to my new school at Briarwood and we had a different form last year.

My principal was like, I just wanna show you this form.

It was the trust based observation form.

And he was like, it looks like a lot.

And I was like, that looks like a lot.

But we just continued to use our old form.

And it was more like, Hey, I didn't see this in your lesson.

Are you doing it or is this something you would consider adding?

And so like I was getting more feedback.

But the trust-based observation form, again, 'cause I see myself as a continuous learner and somebody that's like.

Not an expert at my craft, I can always continue to improve and always continue to work on stuff.

I loved getting feedback, like saying, you said this and this is how the kids responded.

Or I saw you reaching this level of questioning and this is how the kids were adapting to yeah.

So, and it was just, it was very interesting to see like how my teaching came across to somebody.

That's not me, right?

Because like I know what I'm intending to do, but to see like how other people interpreted it, I really liked that opportunity to see it laid out for me.

And so that

Craig: In almost like a framework of core areas of practice really.

Yeah.

Rose Picard: No I really liked getting to see what, you know, again, like, I heard you say this you know, and this is what you were supporting.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, that was my intention.

Okay.

Good.

Right.

No I really liked it.

Once you get into it, like once the form's explained, it's cool.

It's a really, really informative.

Craig: Good.

Good.

I'm

Rose Picard: But I do have questions.

Craig: Yeah, go ahead.

Rose Picard: trust-based observation, and this is just purely like, 'cause I have the guy that made it.

Craig: Yeah.

Rose Picard: Where is, this is an unpolished question.

Where's the criticism?

Like, where is the points of growth?

Craig: Okay.

Rose Picard: I walked out, like I

Craig: No.

For sure.

Rose Picard: for an hour.

That was awesome.

Craig: Well, and so look, it's,

if we're gonna inform growth.

A much better chance of doing that, working from strengths than we do working from weaknesses.

So if we have the old Danielson Marzano four point scale of ratings, as soon as I'm putting that scale in there, it's, the whole relational trust thing is shot.

So the whole strengths thing, when as soon and whenever I've got ratings in there, even if I shared all the same strengths in them, you would not hear 85 or 90% of those strengths.

Because you'd be focused on the score.

And so by not taking that score out and by just focusing on strengths one, and this isn't the soul be all, end all, but you already were thinking about things that you could do differently.

Even though we said something not being filled out on the form isn't a negative, you are already doing that.

Right?

Like even that first time as we were going through the form.

I'm sure you were looking at things and going, oh, I could have done peer to peer formative assessment or whatever.

Do you know what I mean?

Just as example.

Okay.

Rose Picard: Right.

Yeah.

Craig: But be, it's not just that.

Okay.

So generally speaking, the way we don't explain this all to you during that because it's, we don't need to at that point, but my lens always, or the principal's lens always is, so there's nine years of pedagogy, but we tie the relationships and behavior management together and we tie the checks for understanding and.

Feedback together.

Okay, so those, then really there's seven areas.

So we're saying every time I'm looking at you or any other teacher, my lens is always, which one of those seven areas, especially as I get to see you and it takes me a while to see you, to really have a clear understanding.

I don't have to give you feedback, suggestions every time.

The sense that we do, the sense the compliment sandwich, the sense of two stars and the wish noticings and one drinks, one.

That's bullshit.

Research shows, teachers know you're just saying the nice things.

You can tell me what you think I need to fix and so we don't want to do that.

And if I really wanna get to know your teaching, I'm not gonna tell you a suggestion.

After one or two times, I might have a sense, but I might not have a sense, and it might be a misguided sense.

So if I'm gonna work with you, I wanna work with you on something that's really meaningful, so I'm looking at you, but after I've seen you about four times, two things have happened.

One, I've filled that jar up with trust marbles, every little thing I do that's building trust in that conversation.

Now that trust is really there.

And I'm not saying Melissa's not trustful or anything at all but but what I am saying is it takes time to build that.

And at that point in time.

People are much more genuinely open to suggestions.

So what we would do theoretically as early as the fourth time and listen.

'cause you're one of the stronger teachers there, it might not be the fourth time for you because we wouldn't do this next part with everybody because it takes time and I couldn't do everybody all at once.

But let's just say it was your time.

And let's just say I felt like, gosh, as, as much as I like Rose, she's not really building in those reflection processing activities yet.

So I might, at the very end of that fourth thing, I'm gonna actually ask permission to offer a suggestion.

So I'm gonna say, Hey Rose I have a thought on reflection and processing activities, would you like to hear?

And so, and I could say, Hey, rose, I wanna work on that, and you will, but just, and I'm telling you things I don't normally tell teachers, but I, but you ask, so I'll tell you.

But when I ask you, it creates.

It creates a different mindset.

It creates a way more open.

Let's work on this together mindset.

So then I'm probably gonna dig into that toolbox possibilities on working memory.

And then I'm gonna look at that article that has a 70 different things.

And I'm gonna say, look, if you were gonna like pick five or six of these, let's just go through 'em, which ones really resonate with you, you think would work with these kids?

Then I'm gonna say, Hey, if we were just gonna try this with one of your classes tomorrow, which one do you think you'd want to try it with?

And then I'm gonna say.

Let's look at that lesson.

Where do you think for like those third or fourth graders, or maybe their cognitive capacity is about seven minutes?

Where do you think maybe there's natural breaks in there where I could build those reflection and processing activities in, I'm say, okay, so with this first one, which one of this list of six or seven do you think would be the best one to do there?

And we're gonna work our way all the way through the lesson.

Then we're gonna say, okay, so tomorrow there's four ways we can do this.

One is I could model it for you.

Two, we could co-teach it.

Three you could teach and I could watch, and I can give you feedback in one of two ways.

I can either give you suggested feedback in the moment or wait and give it afterwards, or you can give it a go on your own and tell me afterwards.

But I always say if you give it on your, go on your own.

Sometimes we try something new, it can get a little worse before it gets better.

It's called an implementation dip.

And if that happens, we're notorious for just quitting it and going back to what we were doing before.

But you know, I'm gonna be back in your classroom.

That's not gonna work.

It.

So if that happens and you do it on your own, you gotta come and get me.

So usually people choose the second or third one, co-teaching or you do it and then to gimme feedback.

Then we're gonna have another conversation the next day.

And I'm gonna, it's very similar but shorter, I'm gonna say.

What, with this new strategy, with the reflection, what do you think went well with these processing activities?

What would you like to keep working on with these processing activities?

And then the most important question of all is what can I do to help you?

So you can start to put that into all your practice.

So by the time I see you in a month from now, I see this as a regular part of what you're doing.

And then next visit, I'm doing the same thing with everything, but I've got a little keener idea.

Focus on that one area and maybe we'll.

Rose Picard: of that conversation.

Craig: Maybe you already be there, but I'm also providing you descriptive progress, feedback, support in the exact same way I would want you to do for your student as opposed to the way we do now.

Hey, here's an article.

You know what I mean?

So it's supported so and then the other way we do.

Rose Picard: and choice and the ownership here.

Craig: Yeah, so that's really what it'll look like down the road, but that takes it, you know, that takes three or four months to really get to that point.

In best case scenarios.

So we have that and we wanna offer support and we, and look, we, the thing is like all of us, like no matter how good we are at something, we all have blind spots.

I literally learn something new every single week when I'm training a school.

'cause trainees will point out something.

I'm the guy that developed it and I have tons of blind spots 'cause I learn something every single week.

And so it's the same thing like you are, you're figuring out what you want to get on your own is great.

But also, gosh, if I've got a blind spot, help me see so I can grow in that area.

Rose Picard: Right.

I love this.

I really like how you were putting it back on the teacher to like, think it through.

Yeah,

Craig: But with support.

Rose Picard: cool, great.

Yeah.

But again, like for kids, it's like they're successful when you give them the parameters to work through, but there's still that space that they can kind of deviate and find their own path in that.

And I feel like you're offering that.

It sounds like you're offering that for teachers too.

Like, I'm seeing this area grow.

How can you fulfill that, that need here?

And there's lots of paths and choices you can make there.

Craig: You the same way that you are with your kids.

Rose Picard: I love that.

But I mean, that sounds very trust based.

Craig: And it works better because of that.

I mean, we see real meaningful improvement in math and ELA scores because of that.

And people wanna stay in their building because they, because it feels supportive, right?

If I know I can try new things out, have it be a disaster, and have my boss go, I love it.

I mean, who wouldn't wanna stay in that?

Rose Picard: Yeah.

Who wouldn't want to be a part of a community and feel like you can fail and still be accepted?

That's awesome.

Craig: Yeah, exactly.

For sure.

Rose, I have actually a really big meeting with Sonoma County.

This could be a really big gig for me in four minutes, so I'm gonna go 'cause I go and

Rose Picard: Okay,

Craig: my last second.

No.

This was great.

Completely.

Don't be sorry at all.

I'm really glad we had this conversation afterwards.

Thank you so much.

So I will email you, it's probably a couple months out before it comes out just with the number of where we are in the process, but I'll definitely let you know when it's ready.

Okay.

Rose Picard: great.

Thanks so much.

Craig: All right.

Take care, rose.

Bye.

Rose Picard: You too.

Bye.

Ted (Intro Outro Man): Thank you for listening to 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance.

If the show resonated with you, you can help other teachers by liking, sharing, and subscribing.

More importantly, if you don't like the way you're being evaluated, don't like being nitpicked and scored, then check out Trust Based Observations at TrustBased.

com, where we know the path to growth is through safe spaces for risk taking.

Tell your principal about it, and change your school's observations to a model of trust and support, and join the thousands of teachers who now experience the joy of observations the way they're meant to be done.