20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

Barb Duecker
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[00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with trust based observations. Today, we have Barb Deeker from the Faye School in Houston, Texas with us. I've seen Barb twice really because I've been at their school twice. Once, but not twice. Three school years ago, I think the first year we were doing it.

And then again, just like a week and a half ago, I think two weeks ago. And so welcome Barb. How are you?

Doing well on a Friday. Doing very well.

Good. I'm glad to hear that. I think maybe the best thing to do is if we could start by just maybe you telling the audience a bit about yourself your background, what your teaching experience is and we'll take it from there. A

Oh, I'd be glad to. Thank you, Craig, for having me today. I've been teaching about 40 ish years. I have to go back and do the math. And I'm currently at the Fay School. I've taught here for, this is my 17th year. Before that, I worked at another independent school in Houston for 16 years. [00:01:00] I worked in Asheville, North Carolina.

For about five years, and I actually started in Fort Lauderdale, Pompano Beach at a public school in a low socioeconomic, um, school, and that was my first teaching position. I was there for three years, so. (ad here) listen, I've been lucky enough to get to see you twice actually. I know we had a little pre talk about the lesson that we watched, you know, a couple weeks ago. And, but one thing I didn't tell you is that I think when I think about both times I've seen you, maybe the thing that just comes shining through most vividly when we think about your success with kids is just your spirit and passion and your positivity and your care for the kids. Just like, you just have this oomph that you just, which I think just, it rattles off [00:02:00] in the classroom and your passion for it just really resonates with the kids.

thank you. I thank you for that, Craig. I I read a book a long time ago that was, I think it was called , Capturing Kids Hearts, and it was a program. And it just validated what my feelings are. If I don't know them if they can't trust me, then I don't know how I can get anything across to them.

So, I do have to capture their hearts. And we spend a lot of time on that at the beginning of the year, honestly. Creating that atmosphere.

tell me about that.

Well, at the beginning of the year you know, I've always told new teachers, when you begin your first year and we begin your beginning of the year, you need to lay the groundwork and set the parameters and make sure That children have time to feel comfortable, that they can listen to you, but also that they understand that in a community we all have to work together.

[00:03:00] And that we're in this small room it's not like when they live at home, when they live at home, if they get mad at their brother or sister, they can leave the room. But in this classroom, we gotta figure it out. And so, we do a lot of role playing We spend a lot of time, we really do everything so particularly and carefully and we sit on the floor and talk, we sit in chairs and talk, and you know, my reputation at this school is, and every kid, the kids that come here say that, you know, when we were in third grade, we were afraid of you. Bye. But you're funny. You're, you know, like, what was it that you were afraid of? Well, you had people mind, you know? And so, yeah, that's important to me, because again, we're in this community. We got to share our space. So, um, I would say I have a very good relationship with my children. Again, going back to capturing their [00:04:00] kids hearts.

, , there has to be some connection. There just has to be.

Well I think the interesting thing is you're talking about like, minding and behaviors and you're all talking about how you're unpacking that and through role play. And so, it's interesting that as you're talking about all these things that. That are necessary to make a class function well, there must be something in the way that you're doing these things, which really sound like behavioral things, though, that are building relationship at the same time.

Sounds like part of it maybe is giving the kids voice through the role play and discussion of it afterwards.

Yes. And and also They're stewards of this together. And then, for instance, the other day only half our kids were here. They, the other half were either sick or at class visits. And it was, they kept saying, this is the best day we've ever had. It's just us. And this is the best day, you know, this is the, we're never going to be together like this again.

And look. It's just [00:05:00] half of this group. And then children who usually don't interact with each other, one of them spoke up and said, Hey, what do you think about all sitting together today at lunchtime? Now, doesn't every teacher want to do that? And and so our kids eat lunch together. on an open campus.

They can pick anywhere in our backyard in our open area to eat. And sure enough, I went out there and there they were all together. So, I just think that there's there's, somehow, I, we build a community of trust. We understand mistake, I understand mistakes, Responsibility is big. You know, like if somebody forgets their homework or forgets to, you know, that puts a stop to our day and we all have to stop and wait.

I guess that's kind of it in a nutshell. I mean, it just flows. I don't have to raise my voice. In fact, if I get [00:06:00] silent, that's better than raising my voice with these guys. So,

Wait, why is Miss Deeker silent?

just looking. So I'm gonna it just happens and every year it just happens.

Yeah, I mean, you're saying it just happens, but I'm hearing you say words like stewards, which means you're making them owners of it. You talked about together and ownership. You're setting that all up at the beginning of the year, which helps them to be accountable, not only to you, but to the class and to their peers as well.

And you talked about, like, trust, which, of course, you know, I like that word. And because it matters, because when there's trust, people are more willing to take risk and be bold or like that more quiet person that said, Hey, let's all have lunch together. That doesn't happen without trust too. So, it's, you know, one of the things that we talk about, you know, when we ask the questions after the observation is what were you doing pedagogically speaking to help kids learn it?

And you know, this is you all will talk about it. And then we reframe it into the pedagogical language. And it's not uncommon [00:07:00] to hear teachers say, well, you know, I don't know, I just do it, but there's things that you're doing that you just don't think about you're doing, but you're doing, but they all build those, the stewardship, the together, the trust, the ownership, that factor into, I think, capturing the kid's heart.

right I, you know, so you say take risks. Taking risks for me as a child in math was very difficult because I moved around a lot and I was a a child of new math, which kind of meant no math. And so when I finally landed in, in middle school, I came not with a whole lot of tools in my math backpack and that continued all through middle school and into college.

And finally, I had a mentor sit down with me and say, look. You have to give math equal credit here, equal balance, and and I said, well, I don't understand it that well and he said, we're going back to the [00:08:00] beginning, and he spent time with me, getting me, you know, just with the basics of math, and then he said, now balance it.

When you go to teach in a, in your self contained balance it. So, I started at that point never wanting kids to know that math, math was my least favorite subject as I was growing up.

And then they all, then one time I told a story about that at the end of the year, what do you think my favorite subject was?

It was math. And so, That's when I made it a point of every year sharing that it was hard for me to take risk and my stomach hurt and I felt what it felt like and if they would just let me count with the blocks I could have gotten to that problem. So I think that is something that I share with my students and I show them and I spend time on.

[00:09:00] Manipulatives and taking risk and saying, you know, you started, all you got to do is pick up the pencil and start. So I think that's what helps this room roll the way it does.

Well, and that's, I mean, oftentimes are sharing our own vulnerabilities. The teacher makes it safer for kids to do the same thing. And when you do that and share your own experience and that you took risks, then that gets them to do it more too. Why don't we jump into the lesson? So when I was in there, it was they were doing, what was it?

Ecosystems or it was chains, food

Our field, our PBL science question was how does the About how to move matter, you know, how has matter moved on the earth? So it, because in the end we worked on our composting project on our campus.

Oh, right. The composting. That's

Yes. Yes. But before we went directly to today's composting, I want the children to understand how, before human beings started, Messing [00:10:00] with everything.

That was a beautiful complete cycle and how that cycle works. And so we started with, you know, with the son's energy and went to the real cycle. There's a book I wanted them to read and I don't know about anybody else, but ICII love to read. It's my favorite thing to do in pastime. I can't get my children to read like they used to read.

And comprehend, especially non fiction. So I chose a non fiction book that was a grade level below. I broke the book up in, it had seven chapters, and I broke it up into chapters, and I told the kids, we're gonna become experts of this book. You're gonna read one chapter, And you're going to be the expert and you're going to teach the rest of us.

Jigsaw. So, they read their chapters independently.

which by the way, I just have to tell you, I was just looking at the Hattie research and [00:11:00] jigsaw is like a 9 something on influence and anything above 4 is really high. So jigsawing is great

I'm telling you, if you're not using Jigsaw yet, especially these days, it helps with the time. It works. I love it. And the kids love it too. So, Jigsaw. Long story short, when they finally came to the table to work with their partners, they had to create a poster that they used to talk to the children to teach their classmates. And they, you know, I gave them the objectives, I gave them the rubric of how it needed to be set up, and I mean, I just kept saying, we have the book. We don't need the book's words. We can pick up and read the book. What are some things that you can use in your project, in your poster that will teach the content area?

And so [00:12:00] we did. We talked about cycles. We showed Venn diagrams. We made up ones that involved ourselves. Then as often things go, I said, all right, get to work. And I looked around and they were all writing words after words after words after words. So I started visiting and the book that they read was all about decomposers and producers and the energy cycle.

So I gave them about 15 minutes to work and I looked around and I said to myself, we've got to save this project because it was all words. ( ad here) Really, you were talking about engagement with presentation and the way you were talking about it. And then what did they revert to? They reverted to just writing down the words.

That, that was the irony of the whole thing. And so I went

No, Barb, can I just jump in real quick? It's so interesting because in one of the areas in our behavior management, although this isn't quite behavior management, but you'll get what I'm saying. One of the tools that we talked about is responsive teaching and it's those moments as teachers and they're so [00:13:00] vital.

Those moments as teachers where we've got a plan. And the plan has gone awry. Maybe our tech has gone out or maybe we talked about making this assignment super engaging because they're going to have to present it to their peers in the way that their peers are going to be into it and now the kids are doing exactly what you don't want to do and it's like oh I either let it fall apart and then the kids present in a way that's going to be boring and not engaging and then nobody's really learning at the level I want or I jump in I stop, we do responsive teaching, and we adapt, and that's what that whole day, those whole 20 minutes we were there, that was so brilliant to me, Barb, was you went from group to group, quickly between each group, and your use of questioning is so high level to get the kids to And, like, when we talk about descriptive progress feedback, we talk about basic, giving kids the answer, instructional, giving instructions, or coaching, the use of questions to get kids to get their own answers.

And your use of coaching, getting the kids to get their own answers, to get it to be more engaging, [00:14:00] is exactly what we saw in those 20 minutes. Why don't you talk about that?

I will talk about that. So it was during a moment I thought, this is going south fast. I can either bail, I mean, I can remember this going through my hair, I can either bail or I can just charge. And I

so relate.

I did. And so I went to the first group. I looked around and I went to the first group and actually Craig, I never told you this, but I thought they would be the easiest ones for me to turn around.

And I thought, well, maybe, and this is all going, you know, how fast teachers have to think, you know, it's just like this, right?

And you've got five extra people in your room,

Yes. But I also had other children listening.

Yeah.

And so their turn was going to come. I think they knew. So anyway, I got to the first group and I'm like, all right, so show me the overall plan.

What's your plan? And they said, well, there's this, and then I open, I can remember at one point [00:15:00] opening up a book and saying, Yeah I read that. It's right here in the book. Yeah, and look, the pictures are here too. Nobody even has to You know, your pictures are here, your words are here and they just kept shaking their heads.

Yeah, but do you like how we used, you know, this color marker with the words? Yeah, but do you see the words? What's, you know, where are you gonna lead this? One third of the page now is words. Are you gonna read it out loud? Should we just ask them to open their books? Well, yeah, but look at the colors that we used and then at the bottom we're going to have this.

And so I just kept asking questions like who,

in again?

yes, I

and that's it because it's so like it's so hard to me when we're in those moments because it at some point in your mind you're thinking I should just tell them. It's so much easier if I just tell them. But if I tell them they'll just do it because I'm telling them to do it and they're not getting that real learning of the value [00:16:00] of understanding why the way they're doing it on their own isn't the same as when you persist in asking questions.

And so as I'm watching, you know, we two other phrases that we have in our toolbox.

And with your questions, that's exactly what you were doing is you kept at them and asking questions and not giving in and giving the answer until they found out, discovered on their own, like, Oh yeah, this isn't, I need to do it like this.

I think that's it. It, in my I wasn't giving up and I'm like, and so then I started, it started things like, well, who's your audience going to be? It was their peers. And I, and then, well, you know, what's your goal? What are you trying to do here? And I wasn't going to give up. And what was the quote and

And sometimes they drove you a little crazy along the way.

well, it does, except you can tell with, in their body language, when [00:17:00] you have their attention. they're looking inside and thinking, Yeah, I don't want to do it like this. I don't want to do it the way that this is going. And in fact, one girl was pretty, you know, tough and she, she didn't really want to, but her friend said, Yeah, I think this would not be good. I don't, I think this would be boring to watch if I was just reading.

It wouldn't be that hard to change it. And I said, it really wouldn't be. Let's talk about the way that you could change it to make it lit so that your peers would want to listen to it.

and I, the one girl I was behind her but I could tell she must like this. She must have had a sour look on her face because before that I think you set the table really properly because you, the first thing you did was you showed empathy and you could, you said I can tell you don't want to redo it and you don't have to redo it if you don't want to. And so I think by setting that up at first with [00:18:00] the empathy piece, that makes her more open, where otherwise she's more closed off. And then I think the other piece about that was so great was then at that point, you got the other student to be the one to start to say it. Because, you know, sometimes we're like a parent, we can tell our kids something and they just say yeah.

And then your brother or sister will say the same thing and they'll say, oh, dad or mom, uncle, so and so. And you're like, I just told you that, right? In essence, by you're getting that other student. to explain it. I think that even started to resonate more and got her to go along.

And then, and again, you could tell that I could tell that the girl who said, yeah, it really wouldn't be that hard. I could tell she was coming around. The other girl's face was still very guarded and stern, but once the, her peers said, yeah and all of a sudden it was like night and day. They got excited, they got going, they were on fire and so then I went to the next group.

And Barb, just real quick, before you go to the next group, just [00:19:00] real quick. And that's responsive teaching again, because we can have our best laid plans, but we all know every moment in the moment, we've got to adapt and adjust on the fly and be willing and open to doing that. And you were doing that. And then also sticking to that.

I'm only going to ask questions so they get it themselves too. Like all that's happening in the moment. I like these thousands of things.

right. And so, so, It's hard for me to recreate all the questions I asked, but I'm telling you, I probably asked 30 questions.

Oh, no, in the time we were there, you asked probably 75 questions

Oh, but no, with one group.

with that one group. Oh, yeah no, for sure. Because it's

And it wasn't Sarka, it was I really try, I'm pretty boisterous. And I really tried not to speak loudly to them. I wanted them to feel comfortable with the questions. I tried to give them a little bit of time to think in between. for listening. Long

you're passionate and persistent.

yes, I wasn't going to stop. And so [00:20:00] I think from that, then, you know, I just visited group by group.

They saw, oh, like, here she comes, you know?

For better or worse.

And, you know, with one group, I said, if you were in the audience, would you be interested in learning from the poster that you're making? And that was what turned them no, I,

group's a little bit different, right? But you're, what are you hitting on? You're hitting on engagement, right?

but also knowing your kids too. You've got to know

yeah. Which

It's key because some things I could turn somebody off about and then, you know, it's, you know, I think having kids regroup and try again. They just want to get you to the finish line, you know? So, yeah, it was an amazing, it was an amazing learning cycle. But, and I had a second class in the [00:21:00] afternoon, and it did the same way. I was able to use some of what happened in the first class with the others, But still, half of them started writing words, just writing words.

So, and the presentations that they gave the students were wonderful. I had them take notes, bullets on the chapters, and they knew the whole book. They, everything that they needed to hear, they took away from what was said during the presentations. So.

and let's contrast that bar because if we if you just say it's an easy thing to do, if you just say, all right, it wasn't exactly what I wanted, but I'll let it go,

Right? And then they go up and they present these things are basically they're reading off their poster boards. And then you have those kids take notes.

What are those notes going to be like? Where's the learning going to be like in comparison, right? It's going to be night and day [00:22:00] different.

You know, it's about their faces. I can't look at children when they're quote learning when they're disengaged. I feel like I gotta switch gears real quick.

That's fascinating, Barb. I mean, that's, we talk about, like, responsive teaching, but like, what I'm hearing you say is something that's really profound to me, is like, I'm reading my kids in the moment all the time and I'm basically, like, Have I lost you or not? Are you there or not? Because if I've lost you, then I know it's a waste of my time and then I'm not guiding you.

That's really interesting.

well, I mean, It doesn't feel good to be the teacher and have people, it just

Feel good.

Like when you notice that,

Yes. Like, you know, this is not working. And and it just doesn't feel good. So, it, that might be a time where I say, okay, everybody stand up and we're gonna do, you know, wake [00:23:00] up, do some stretches, and then we're going to switch gears.

You know, just because, if they're not engaged, it just doesn't happen. Now, are 100 percent of them engaged all the time? No, but I think it's important that there's a 75 to 80 need to be on track all the time

and then I can still check in with those other

and then other ones, that gives me time to pull, you know, the other ones into so that we're at 100%.

Yeah, I think that, I just find that fascinating that you're looking at them and that's guiding your actions a lot. I mean, obviously you had a goal and they weren't grasping it. And then, but just the way you persisted, I mean, there's some, you know, you think about the observation form on trust based observations, you know, it's only nine areas, but it's really specific.

And you think about how many different factors there are in that, like, We're talking about relationship piece with you know, caring about them, high expectations. We're talking about well, we're talking about well, cooperative learning, cause they're doing pairs. We're also talking [00:24:00] about you're constantly formally assessing what's going on and then providing descriptive progress, feedback, and use of coaching.

But you're also talking about differentiating and adapting your practice to each person. Group of students, but even each individual student within that, and the use of your questions, all within that 20 minute period, with like great specificity.

Yeah yes, and let me point out to you

Please,

how much I love I already, I use the word brilliant when it comes, when I come to your tool the tool that y'all use in the classroom,

the observation form.

the observation form, because it defines exactly what I'm doing and sometimes I don't realize it. Sometimes I also think I should have pushed harder.

Sometimes I'm maybe not too, I'm too hard on myself. Maybe I'm not hard enough. But the form and the [00:25:00] process is brilliant and the Bloom Textile, that's my favorite part,

That inverted pyramid, yeah, with the question starters all built in.

Yes. I just think it's brilliant to be able to color code You know, where everything is

Where my questions are, and where do I want them to be, and where do they need to be for that particular lesson to make it most effective.

right exactly,

the way, for anybody interested, you can go to the TrustBase. com website, and there's a tab that says Observation Form, and they can fill it out and see the form for themselves if they're not at the school that's doing TrustBase observations yet.

Barb, this has been brilliant. I love it. I love everything you're doing. The reason we started this was so other teachers could learn, like, when we see these 20 minutes of brilliance from each other and I think there's lots of good stuff here for teachers to pick up on. One of the things that we like to offer is a way for teachers to be able to reach out to you if they want to have questions or maybe get more specifics on what you're doing.

Are you happy to share out your email or social media with people in case [00:26:00] they want to get a hold of you?

I am, yep yes, it's B all small letters, B, Deeker, D as in David, U E C K E R, at,

TheFaySchool. org and it's TheFaySchool. org

Beautiful. Thanks, Barb. We'll have that in the show notes so our listeners can if they can't write it down in the moment, they can get it later. Barb, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your 20 minutes of brilliance. At both times I've been able to watch you, it has been a true joy for me.

So, thanks again.

Oh, you're, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me today.

Take care.

You too. Bye.