20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

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[00:00:02] Intro: Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with Trust Based Observations. Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of Trust Based Observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations. Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers, learning what they do that is so impactful. We hope you enjoy

[00:00:25] Craig Randall: Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations. A couple of weeks ago I was at an independent school in Houston, Texas called the Briarwood School and it was a really fascinating experience for me because. One I didn't even know.

[00:00:42] Craig Randall: Independent schools had specialty schools for kids with learning challenges. And Briarwood is that It has actually two schools. It has the TU school for students with developmental disabilities. Then it has the Briarwood school for students with dyslexia and maybe some neuro neurodivergent issues as well.

[00:01:01] Craig Randall: And so it was amazing learning for me. It was also amazing for me to watch. The different ways that that briarwood and thank work with students with those issues because it, there really were significant differences in the way they teach and learn to help these kids succeed. It was fascinating.

[00:01:18] Craig Randall: So, the very first observation I did that week was with thank, and she just blew me away with teaching others, her relationship, her care, her relentless pace and intensity. And all designed to help the kids learn. And so thank thank Elliot is with us today. And so thank, would you maybe just introduce yourself and tell the audience about your background experience and how you got to Briarwood and maybe your experiences before that as well.

[00:01:45] Thaint: Yes, and thank you for being so complimentary, Craig. So I've always known I wanted to be a teacher and this is my 12th year of teaching. I gradually gravitated towards specializing in reading and intervention. I saw students struggling with reading and I really just wanted to assist with that.

[00:02:12] Thaint: I've been in public school, I've been in charter schools, and I just saw that the needs of students were not being met, not to. The capacity that they needed. And when I found the Briarwood School, it was just like mind blowing because our class sizes are so small, I can address all their needs. It's leveled by ability and it's just, it's so rewarding to see these kids who have historically been. Unsuccessful in school. Feel successful, have, enjoy school again.

[00:02:54] Craig Randall: I think we wanna dive into so many things from that. I think one of the things that we want to maybe get into a little bit philosophical in a little bit, I wanna talk about your teaching first, but is. That ought to be accessible for all students, public school students too, in a way that's not there now.

[00:03:09] Craig Randall: And so maybe later on we'll see if we can solve that problem or come up with some solutions or hopefully not beat our heads against the wall and come away defeated. But when we are in there, I think just like in, in terms of your teaching, one you. You're strict, but like the warmest, strict person I've ever met.

[00:03:28] Craig Randall: And because like you, it just feels like you are on a mission to help those kids learn. And so we're going at a fast pace. There's a way we do things. There's a right way to do things because it's all designed to help the students learn. And while you're doing that, like, and we'll dig in maybe into the pedagogy of that in a minute, but like one of the things that really stood out is just the.

[00:03:51] Craig Randall: Yet you're creating a really safe learning environment for the students. At the same time, like I remember this you have these anchor charts and when, where you're doing combination sounds if I remember right. And and so the kids come up and they point to the anchor charts, and there's this pattern they do over and over again, and they each take turns teaching others as they're doing it.

[00:04:11] Craig Randall: And there's one little girl, I won't say she was struggling. She was just getting it. And maybe one of the kids started to jump in and offer a suggestion and you were like wait. She's gonna get it. Give her a second. And it was just this really special moment of one, accountability and high expectations, but support.

[00:04:29] Craig Randall: A safe learning environment built in at the same time. Do you just maybe want to talk about the combination of relationships and classroom management and the role they play in helping to build success for the students?

[00:04:43] Thaint: Yes, so. Classroom management is very important. Most of our kids have a DHD, they can be a little defiant. So you can't have classroom management unless you build those relationships. The kids have to trust you and they have to trust that you care about them, and you're not just making decisions and telling them what to do.

[00:05:05] Thaint: So I always find out a little nugget about the kids. I check on them. How is your d So with that one girl, Abigail, her dog went missing for a little bit. I was like always checking on her, how's biscuit doing? And just creating a warm and loving persona, but also know, like giving the kids. Boundaries, like, yes, I love you.

[00:05:34] Thaint: Yes, I'm here for you. But you also have to follow the expectations of the class.

[00:05:40] Craig Randall: Yeah. And it's so interesting. I mean, really you're talking about using our TBO language, where we would say like, the knowledge of the individual student is so important and personal discourse with the student about that. Like when they know you care about them like that, it makes such a difference.

[00:05:55] Craig Randall: I mean, you talked about trusting, letting them know you care instead of like, you are making decisions for them and telling them what to do. I can't help of course. 'cause I'm the trust based observations guy to draw the parallels that being exactly the same thing though, that we want with us as leaders, with teachers, right?

[00:06:14] Craig Randall: I want to have that same care for you. I want you, I don't want to tell you what to do and make decisions for you. I really want to build genuinely relationships with you so you can feel safe trying new things and experimenting.

[00:06:26] Craig Randall: What you, what teachers are doing with students and what principals ought to be doing with teachers. If we really want to be successful, why would it be any different?

[00:06:33] Thaint: Exactly, and I really like when we did the observation, it felt like how I would treat my students, this is what you. Well, right. I appreciated this. I noticed you did this. Here's some things we can work on. Here's something I would want you to add in the future.

[00:06:54] Craig Randall: Except we didn't do that last part. We just shared what we noticed, what ends up happening. And it's so funny 'cause oftentimes people will say afterwards and you know, and then you suggested we could do this or that, but we actually didn't it. It's as we're going over the form, I think. I think because we've, even the first time through it feels so different than the traditional observations.

[00:07:16] Craig Randall: And you were telling me a little bit about that before, and I do want to go into that momentarily, but because we were. Just creating, pointing out what you're doing and by asking you first, instead of telling you instantly, I think feel more safe. And so as we're going over the form, you are seeing things on the form.

[00:07:35] Craig Randall: And we even say not being there, it's not a negative, but I think your own mind is processing, oh, I think I can do this better. And then later on you think, oh they nicely made suggestions, but you were actually, those were your own suggestions on your own as we were doing that. So.

[00:07:52] Thaint: Yes. I always want to do better, so, going through the forum and like seeing these things. So I know I've started doing like check-ins after every little mini segment of my class just to make

[00:08:08] Craig Randall: Are you doing cognitive load working stuff? I wanna get back into your teaching stuff in a minute. But since we, since this came up early as we were talking about relationships, we were chatting a little bit before about, you know, maybe the contrast of what your experiences had been with observation in the traditional model in the public school setting.

[00:08:33] Craig Randall: Do you want to talk about that for a second?

[00:08:35] Thaint: Yes I can. So I think Texas is. Probably particularly hard on teacher evaluations. In my previous schools, it's always been numbered. You know, you get rated from one to four on a bunch of different criteria and it always felt like you were. Less than adequate, even if you got like a 3.7 it always felt like something was missing because how it's different from trust-based observations was they start with pointing out what you did not do.

[00:09:13] Thaint: Like what you versus pointing out, Hey, you did this great, like you have a great relationship with the kids. So this. Like having, my observation with TBO was, it had a whole different vibe than any other observation I've had before. It

[00:09:33] Craig Randall: You know, just go ahead.

[00:09:35] Thaint: it just felt more secure, more warm, right? Like how I would talk to my kids.

[00:09:41] Thaint: This is like how the observation felt.

[00:09:43] Craig Randall: How you would talk to your kids is exactly how the observation felt. Like I heard you say like you feel less than adequate, like with the other thing. And even if you get a 3.7, because they start out by pointing out what's wrong to you. Like in what world would we ever do that with our kids?

[00:10:04] Craig Randall: And so, because we would say like, if you did that with your kids, your principal rightly so, would say, what are you doing? We're trying to build these kids up, right? And yet we have a model that makes it so that's what we do w with our teachers. And then, well, it doesn't work with them, but it'll work with you.

[00:10:23] Craig Randall: Like it's so messed up. It ought to be exactly the same way. In terms of that, sorry, I'm getting fired up about this stuff, but.

[00:10:31] Thaint: That's okay. No, I completely agree with you. How are you going to get your teachers to build relationships with kids when you're pointing out everything they do wrong?

[00:10:43] Craig Randall: Instead of working from strengths.

[00:10:45] Thaint: Right. And always about test scores continuously. I don't know if this is the same in all states, but in Texas it's always about test scores.

[00:10:54] Craig Randall: I remember going to a Kagan conference oh, gosh, in 2016, and I was sitting with these really wonderful Texas public school teachers, and in third grade you didn't even have a homeroom teacher anymore. You had your math and science teacher and your humanities literacy and social studies teacher, because it was all about the scores in third grade.

[00:11:14] Craig Randall: And. Oh man, I don't even know where to go. But it's not, and it's not the teacher's fault. They're just trying to do the best they can under the system that they're put into. And look I, we all wanna improve teaching and learning, for sure we do. But the way we're doing it, and the research says it doesn't improve teaching and learning.

[00:11:30] Craig Randall: And I'm just gonna share this real quick. I didn't mean for this episode to go this way, but it, we're here now and we might go a little longer today, but but. We actually just got our first public school hard data. There's a small school district we work with in Texas, in, in Texas, in California.

[00:11:46] Craig Randall: It's it's an economically depressed oil town and it's 80% free, reduced lunch, 60% Hispanic. And they got their first standardized test scores back after they'd been implementing TBO for over a year. And they actually showed the kids that reached per. Proficient increase in math by seven and a quarter percent and an ELA by 12 and three quarters percent, so.

[00:12:09] Craig Randall: Look, when we focus on strengths, we're creating way more conditions for the teachers to grow, just like you are with your students and contrasting to the others. I'll let that go now and let's move back to your to your class and the amazing things that are happening. I think when we were there.

[00:12:26] Craig Randall: Like, I think the other, I mean a lot of things stood out. I mean you, your relentless pace stood out too. And I think pacing is so important. And especially you talked about like the neurodivergent and A DHD and I think the pacing also keeps the kids more engaged and also because you have that teaching others and the kids are getting all chance to stand up and move around and stuff.

[00:12:46] Craig Randall: So do you maybe want to talk on that piece just a little bit for us?

[00:12:49] Thaint: Yes, so I really, I. Enjoy being creative with my lessons. And I love Briarwood because it allows me to have that creativity instead of being force fed a curriculum.

[00:13:05] Craig Randall: Yeah.

[00:13:06] Thaint: And I, like kids have freedom of choice, so I'm like, how do we want to review these words today? And they know like our scope of like different activities and options and every class will choose a different one.

[00:13:21] Thaint: And that's totally fine 'cause we still get the objective done.

[00:13:25] Craig Randall: So choice and behavior management is factoring in into that as well into the management of the class. And yet it pulls kids into the learning and they want to be more engaged in it because that's built into it as well. When we were there another thing that really stood out to me I is you have teaching others built into so much of what you do.

[00:13:46] Craig Randall: And on the TBO form we have that learning principles pyramid and the most. Impactful activity that we as teachers can create for our students to help them learn and have retention of learning is when teaching others is built into that. And so do you wanna talk a bit about that and what you're doing with that and how you build that into your class in multiple different ways.

[00:14:08] Thaint: I really take any opportunity to have students, check other students' work. It makes them feel like leaders in the classroom and with our demographic of children, with them being historically unsuccessful in school which is why they're here, it just builds their confidence and I love that.

[00:14:27] Thaint: And I also am very careful to make sure that. When you are teaching others mistakes are okay. People make mistakes, it's fine. But also the explanation. So like, for example, why do we use this spelling of iic because it's a two syllable word. So yes, correcting others, but also explaining.

[00:14:52] Craig Randall: So for the kids though, teaching others, tell me more about like what they're doing and by the way, I love that you're saying mistakes are okay, we want that and which is exactly the same thing that we do say with trust, face observations, try new things. It's okay to make mistakes 'cause that's how we're gonna grow.

[00:15:06] Craig Randall: But like with the teaching others part specifically. Like what do you, how are you doing that? Like at the beginning you have that, the anchor charts where the kids are going around. Will you explain maybe that piece, but then the other piece also that you talked about, about with exemplars and having kids go around and help the other students as

[00:15:22] Thaint: Okay, so for example, I'll just give you a recent example with the two syllable word we use IC for IIC at the end of the word and with a one syllable word we use ICK. For IC at the end of a word, like in lick or like panic.

[00:15:38] Craig Randall: I never even thought about that.

[00:15:40] Thaint: This is teaching dyslexic kids, so, yeah. So I'll give them a word and then I have them go around and check. And if someone has it spelled wrong, explain why. Why did we use IC instead of ICK and I? Like relatable. So I'm like, I always try to use my students like building relationships, like, huh? If it's just me and Celeste like, yeah, we want Kay to come.

[00:16:11] Thaint: It's not a party unless there's three of us.

[00:16:14] Craig Randall: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that piece is built into it as well. So when you're doing that though, with the teaching, others, you, I think one of the things you said though. It's not just always your strongest students. You're having all the students have a chance to go around and be the one. So one, there's that sense of self success and I'm a leader and I can help teach others too, right?

[00:16:31] Craig Randall: That's just an amazing side bonus of it, which I think also helps their learning as well. Maybe you wanna talk a little bit more about that.

[00:16:38] Thaint: So with my students yes, I kind of leverage it. So yes, I will start with the students who I knew I know have got it. And after we have a few more at bats, I'll start letting the students who I know are kind of still working on this and it makes them feel successful. Right. So maybe they've been corrected twice, but now they have it and they can help others.

[00:17:07] Craig Randall: That build, that builds that process in that success in for them too. So when you, I know that's a regular part of what you do is teaching others, having that built in. I think one of the important things about that is look, kids left to their own devices. They might not always be gentle or respectful or maybe perhaps well intended in terms of the way that they're working with their peers when they're teaching others.

[00:17:36] Craig Randall: So you have to work, and you talked a little bit about this before we went on the air about you have to help build that so the kids know what to and how to do that. Will you talk a little bit about that piece as well?

[00:17:47] Thaint: So we like in my classroom, we just try to build a common language that is kind and accepting. So I'm like, okay, maybe she didn't get it right. Can you gently tell her why? And they'll be like. Yes, because like you missed the S or like you added in an extra L. But it's always in a helpful manner.

[00:18:13] Thaint: So I'm like, the way I talk to you is the way you talk to others.

[00:18:18] Craig Randall: So you, what you're saying is you're modeling for them first. Like, this is how we're gonna talk to our peers when we're gonna support them and it's the way that I do it is the way that I want you to practice doing it. So you're successful for all of us when we're doing that. Do I have that right?

[00:18:35] Thaint: Yes. So right. You can't expect students to do something unless you model it for them.

[00:18:40] Thaint: So my language, my tone in class is the way I expect my students to treat each other.

[00:18:51] Craig Randall: And so then when they teach others, they know to do it in that way, sort of end up being successful. So like in terms of like watching. Watching the learning and teaching that was going on that week. It was really amazing for me to see how the, what the differences are when we're teaching students with dyslexia in this particular instance.

[00:19:10] Craig Randall: And

[00:19:10] Craig Randall: Like, what I think, look, very few people get to work or ha are working in a school that you're working in like that, and yet they've got dyslexic students in their classes.

[00:19:24] Thaint: Right.

[00:19:25] Craig Randall: Just strategy wise, what are some of the maybe key little things, takeaways, moments? Even if I'm in a regular ed, general ed class and I've got a couple or a handful of students that are on having the same issues, like how many suggestions or thoughts for those teachers?

[00:19:45] Thaint: I think making it okay to make mistakes.

[00:19:49] Craig Randall: Yeah.

[00:19:50] Thaint: And also like having your students teach each other. Like yes, you may have those few dyslexic students, but you also have those few like GT students. So if you cannot take the time to do like small groups or one-on-one, having students teach each other I think is just a huge pivotal point that can help.

[00:20:13] Thaint: Reach those students that are struggling.

[00:20:17] Craig Randall: So. One, sending a message to all the kids that it's okay to make mistakes. Because I think early on you said one of the reasons that, that you like it at Briarwood so much is these kids haven't had success before. And they would they would come home probably to their parents, I think you mentioned like crying or upset and like not wanting to go to school anymore because they were struggling and perhaps because inadvertently they were made to not feel good about it.

[00:20:42] Craig Randall: And so. Just by sending that message to our students, it's okay. And it's hard because I can, I can't give the same amount of support to a student in a class like that when they're in a general ed class that I can, when you've got a smaller number of kids in yours and so building in teaching others can be a, maybe a way you can help target that as best you can under the circumstances.

[00:21:06] Thaint: I would say so. I mean, I've been in public school. It is very diff difficult to reach everyone at their level. Yes, we can scaffold, yes, we can do these other teaching strategies. I. But

[00:21:19] Thaint: it realistically, Craig,

[00:21:22] Craig Randall: Yeah, let's.

[00:21:23] Thaint: I was never confident that I did the best with every single child when I was teaching in a general ed class.

[00:21:30] Craig Randall: So let then let's dig into this. Philosophically it, I mean, look, you and I both ag agree. I think that it shouldn't just be the kids that have the financial resources, that have the opportunity to. To experience the type of learning and success that the kids at Briarwood, every kid ought to do it.

[00:21:49] Craig Randall: Do you think the path is then we create classes that are. Like within a general ed school that maybe is a, I know this term comes loaded, but I mean it in a positive, not a negative way, like a self-contained class in public schools For kids like that, how do, what do you think the answer is? So every kid can experience the same type of opportunity to succeed in a public school setting.

[00:22:19] Craig Randall: 'cause this is a minority where you're at a tiny minority and we want it for everybody.

[00:22:25] Thaint: We do want it for everybody. So during my last few years of teaching at a public school, I was a reading interventionist and I saw a lot of success with that. I think we just need additional support. One teacher in a general ed class, it, it's almost impossible to do it all.

[00:22:44] Craig Randall: Yeah.

[00:22:45] Thaint: and having a teaching assistant that can work with a particular group of children, it really takes more than just one person. And I think we need to put less emphasis on test scores.

[00:22:59] Craig Randall: Yeah.

[00:23:00] Thaint: Because that's where that, at least for me, that was the biggest thing holding me back from reaching everybody.

[00:23:07] Craig Randall: That you're told to just work on the kids that are close. That we can get them to proficient so the school looks better, which in, in, in another way, saying, well just screw those kids that aren't far enough away. 'cause we're never gonna get them there anyway. Like the and listen, we can blame the principals and leaders for it, but I think it goes way deeper than that because they're getting so much pressure on them from central office or from the state or, because these laws have been there and so they're just.

[00:23:37] Craig Randall: I mean, look, some of them maybe do buy into it, and so that, that's even more like gut wrenching to me. But just to be told that, so, and yet I don't think we're gonna be able to get rid of an emphasis on test scores. And maybe with what we're doing, maybe that'll make a difference. But Do you, well, I'm just gonna let you respond to what I just said first before we go forward.

[00:23:59] Thaint: It's unfortunate, and I wish every child could have the access to the education that is going to meet their needs best without, you know, their parents having to pay. I worked in a Title one school in low income area for. Years and yeah it's unfortunate and there's no way that these kids could ever come to Briarwood, but that doesn't mean they're undeserving of the education that meets their needs.

[00:24:30] Thaint: I think something's got to change with the funding.

[00:24:34] Craig Randall: What's particularly scary right now with the closing apparently, or cutting of funds from the Department of Education with the current administration in there as well, it's even more frightening, but

[00:24:46] Thaint: And there's so much emphasis on like, how you rank schools. Like are you an A school? Are you a B school? Are you like,

[00:24:54] Craig Randall: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:55] Thaint: I. So I understand why administration wants to focus so much on pushing kids into like the next quartile, like the next percentile, but at the same time, that's not right.

[00:25:11] Craig Randall: Particularly when it's at the cost of the students that are viewed as not having a chance of getting to the next quartile. And I think you would even say based on what your experience at Briarwood is, that's not even necessarily accurate. I. Because we can grow those students too. Not that I give a damn about the scores either, but you can still grow those students like the ones that you have when you're teaching in the way that you, y'all are teaching at Prairiewood.

[00:25:33] Craig Randall: Like I through that Texas. Y'all on there for you.

[00:25:36] Thaint: Right three. Y'all and I see all the time. Yes. No, these students can grow. Maybe they're not growing at the rate that you want them to, but they growth and that's what's important. And you know, what's most important for me is my students like coming to school. They have fun, they are learning, but also enjoying.

[00:26:01] Craig Randall: And if we wanna set them up for real world success. We have to make at school enjoyable for them. I was listening to an Adam Grant book recently, and I can't remember which one, but there were a number of highly successful innovators and leaders out in the world that, that were dyslexic.

[00:26:18] Craig Randall: And so like everything, there's gifts that come with curses, right? And so. One of the best things that we can do is to make sure that those kids feel supported and cared for, and even more obviously, improve their learning. So I think you're hitting on something really important there.

[00:26:34] Thaint: Yeah, and it's dyslexia is a speech language disorder. Interestingly, I read a book on dyslexia. Well, obviously I work here, but the guy that invented the CD player, like he invented so many things. His wife wrote all the patents

[00:26:51] Thaint: Because he was dyslexic.

[00:26:53] Craig Randall: Right, exactly. And so there you go. So I'm gonna come back to this again on the public school thing. Do you think if we had the funding to make it happen that the better method of helping kids With these reading challenges, dyslexic reading challenges would be to create, self-contained or partially self-contained and I mean, classes where other kids are the same thing. So I can focus on teaching you all in the same way. Do you think that's the way in a public school if funding and none, nothing was an issue, but we could be God of of making sure all our kids had the best chance to succeed?

[00:27:28] Craig Randall: Do you think that's the way, so it could be more like Briarwood or you create, if you're a bigger district, maybe even create a school within your district that's a school like that, like Briarwood is.

[00:27:39] Thaint: Honestly. Yes. If every child that I have worked with that struggled with reading could be in a school like Briarwood, I mean, that would be amazing because. Their needs would be met. So yes I think having a self-contained class, but also really needs to get better about testing

[00:28:03] Craig Randall: That the obsession with it.

[00:28:05] Thaint: well, for speech language disorders it's very hard to get diagnosed if you're just going through your school.

[00:28:12] Craig Randall: Oh, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. So even there's undiagnosed kids that are struggling, we don't even know that they're struggling in the area that they're at. So how the heck can we serve them unless we do that? Oh my gosh. I don't have time to go into that one today, but now I feel like I need 15 more minutes to be able to talk about it.

[00:28:29] Thaint: It's so frustrating.

[00:28:30] Craig Randall: I think I want to say something here is to listeners out there I mean if we're gonna be bold risk takers and really try and do everything we can to help our students, I think we need to, like, if somebody, like if that's resonating that, wow, what if we could do something that like that in a public school?

[00:28:46] Craig Randall: 'cause sometimes you just get one, and that's the start of the pendulum, not the pendulum swinging a movement.

[00:28:52] Craig Randall: Pen needs back and forth, right? A movement in the right direction to help kids. I think they ought to reach out to you or me. And maybe we can get people together and who knows, maybe it does start a movement.

[00:29:01] Craig Randall: Wouldn't that be cool if that happened from today? So with that, here's what I'm gonna say. Tain. I think there's people that are gonna be interested in what we're talking about today, who might wanna reach out to you. They can reach out to me too, obviously. But will you please share your contact information if somebody did want to reach out?

[00:29:19] Thaint: Yeah, of course. My email is T-E-L-L-I-O-T t@briarwoodschool.org. T Elliott.

[00:29:31] Craig Randall: T elliot@bbriarwoodschool.org.

[00:29:33] Craig Randall: Thank it has been an absolute pleasure. It was a pleasure a couple weeks ago when I got to sit and watch you, and then more when we got to talk and then even more today as we got to talk again.

[00:29:42] Craig Randall: So thank you so much for gifting us and everybody out there with and all your kids with this opportunity. I really appreciate it.

[00:29:51] Thaint: Thanks Craig. It was honestly very pleasurable to also have my first trust-based observation.

[00:29:58] Craig Randall: I'm glad. I'm glad. Take care.

[00:30:02] Outro: Thank you for listening to 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance. If the show resonated with you, you can help other teachers by liking, sharing, and subscribing. More importantly, if you don't like the way you're being evaluated, don't like being nitpicked and scored, then check out Trust Based Observations at TrustBased.com, where we know the path to growth is through safe spaces for risk taking. Tell your principal about it, and change your school's observations to a model of trust and support, and join the thousands of teachers who now experience the joy of observations the way they're meant to be done.