20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

Craig: Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations.

I was in my home state a couple of weeks ago, training Soap Lake School District in Central Washington, a place that I once lived in that area for.

Four years.

It was fun for me to be back in my old stomping grounds when my kids were one to five year olds.

and when I was there I was able to see a bunch of really amazing teaching and one of the teachers that I saw that week was, um, math teacher who was incredibly passionate.

Her pacing was incredible, and just her desire to help students learn was.

Off the charts and high, high expectations for them, and a bunch of other things that we'll talk about too.

Clarissa Larson, will you please introduce yourself to the audience, tell them a bit about yourself, maybe how you got into teaching, how you got to where you're at now, all that good stuff, please.

Yeah.

Clarissa: So, um, this is

my

Fourth year, um, teaching.

Um, I taught fifth grade for two years in the same district.

And then, um, last year, our principal moved, we moved our sixth grade into our elementary.

And so, um, I was one of the, the lucky two that got that opportunity to kind of help pilot that idea of moving sixth grade back into elementary.

Um, at first I was not interested.

I, in fact, told my administrator at the time, I don't think this is for me.

but my teaching partner is amazing.

and I really do love teaching sixth grade.

it's kind of like You get to take all the skills that they've, they've started to learn in third grade and they built upon in fourth grade and they really kind of honed in on fifth grade and now they get to apply all those things.

I first did not intend to be a teacher.

I graduated high school and my mom was a teacher.

Um, and I for sure was not going to be a teacher.

I told her that many times.

Um, she argued with me.

but I went to school originally to be, a lawyer.

I wasn't sure what kind of lawyer I grew up in agriculture, and so that was where I was really passionate.

Um, so I wanted to do something in ag.

and then I decided I didn't want to go to school that long, so I moved home and started working as a paraeducator and I really just kind of fell in love with.

So then I got my bachelor's while I was being a para at the same school I teach at now.

it's ironic 'cause I'm still going to school and finishing my master's here in like the next couple months.

So I'm still going to school if I would've been chosen to be a lawyer.

But I, I love it and I, I think it was probably my mother was probably correct.

Craig: I won't tell her.

You said that you can keep Yeah, she'll love that.

and, and where does your mom work?

Clarissa: So she is my principal.

Um, which I mean, some people I say that they're like, oh, that must be really nice for you.

I be to differ.

While I do love working with my mom and seeing her every day, I think it kind of adds another level of like.

Stress, I would say.

But not only that, I just, she is an incredible educator and I learned a lot from her.

I learned a lot from the people that she taught with, and so just kind of like wanting to always make sure that.

I am holding myself to those high standards that they, for so many years held themselves to, and then also just make her proud in the sense that I.

Yeah.

I mean, we all wanna make our parents proud, but it's, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, it has its challenges, but at the end of the day it's, it's a huge blessing.

So,

Craig: and you've got a nice system worked out where the high school principal, middle high school principal comes down and does your observation.

So you don't have to have that.

Yeah.

So that's, yeah, and

Clarissa: that's been nice too, 'cause I get to see how the other building does things, so that kind of helps me.

So it's not just one.

Administrator all the time.

Well, in theory, but I've had the superintendent evaluate me just when you know, and so yeah, it's been nice.

To kind of have an outside source looking in and giving you some feedback, that

Craig: additional perspective.

Clarissa: Yes, absolutely.

Craig: Well, let's jump into your teaching.

I think the thing that maybe stood out most to me is just your relentlessness, like your pacing is pop and, and you've got, I. You've got so many things, like even the way the kids enter the class, everything, the way it starts, it's super structured because it's all about learning and, and you have really high expectations.

Uh, you hold kids to account, you're relentless in helping them learning let's just talk about the importance of relationships and.

Classroom management and pacing is part of that.

And just talk to me about how that's evolved and why that's important to you for the students' learning.

Clarissa: one of the big benefits of me being able to work in the district or any, any district really is like a paraeducator before I, and while I was going to school to be a teacher, but before even I had decided was.

I a great, I had great opportunities to learn from great teachers and I got to see a lot of strategies, um, classroom management, all those things that really worked.

Um, and then I got to see some strategies that maybe didn't work all the time, but you know, you could leave them in your hat and pull 'em out when you need 'em, kind of a thing.

Um.

when I first started teaching, the biggest thing that everybody always said was classroom management.

You have to have classroom management.

If you don't have classroom management, you don't have anything.

Well, the last two years that I was a para, I taught preschool.

Um, and if you've ever taught little children.

under the age of five, it's like herding feral cats.

Like I love them to death and they're so fun, but you have to be constantly like on it and watching them and like making sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing and rotating correctly and just like all the things.

And so I think that really kind of helped shape my.

Classroom management and like I need to be like one step ahead of them and making sure that while yes, I'm gonna set high expectations, my kids know at the beginning of the year that it's not gonna be easy and I'm gonna set high expectations for them.

And I, not only do I expect them to meet them, but I expect them to excel.

and they do.

And they don't do it just because like, it sounds kind of.

Harsh, but they do it because they want to.

and I think that just has to go back to like the relationship of like, my kids are in my class for a purpose.

And I tell them at the beginning of the year, you were not placed in here because your fifth grade teacher put you in here, or your parent asked this, You were placed in my classroom and my teaching partner's classroom for a purpose.

And our purpose this year is to be successful and I'm gonna help you do that, but you have to show up and you have to put your fourth year effort.

I, it's definitely evolved over the years, but I do feel like this year has been, the best classroom management that I've had.

I don't want to brag, but I do feel really proud of that and how far I've come in my teaching.

So.

Craig: Gosh, there's so much to unpack within that.

I think the very first thing that that really resonated with me was the gift of being a paraeducator before becoming a teacher, because Absolutely.

If you think about, normally you'll get a student teaching maybe a semester with somebody, some places where you'll get.

Few weeks here, a few weeks there.

But when you're a paraeducator and you have different people you're working with every year or even maybe within the year you're doing that, you're seeing so many different examples, uh, of teaching, whether it's pedagogical teaching, that's beyond the relationship in classroom management, or it is the relationship and classroom management piece.

And with that, you are seeing good examples of like, oh, I'm gonna do that.

Absolutely.

Sometimes you're seeing non examples of, Ooh, I'm not gonna do that.

back when I, I, I coached basketball for a time when I was younger and, and, and I ate those books up.

And Dean Smith, who was the coach at North Carolina, I remember reading in his book saying that when he was a coach early on, he said he learned way more actually from the non examples.

Than the examples, like mm-hmm.

Oh, I'm not gonna do that.

And sometimes you get better doing that.

I'm not saying you had a lot of those, I'm just using it to illustrate a point that we learned from both.

And then I also heard you say that, preschool, like we all know it's way easier to move up with classroom management than it is to down.

But if you can learn to manage four or five year olds, which actually your four or 5-year-old teacher was amazing at her classroom, management at school, Then you can manage everything.

But what I'm also hearing you say is expectations.

I mean, you are in a, uh, an economically deprived area.

Yeah.

It's struggling.

We, we've got a lot of kids in your school, schools that are living with grandparents, which tells us a lot right there.

I think what I'm hearing you say is, my job is to break that cycle.

By helping you to become the best learner you can and having high expectations, I'm setting a higher bar for you to help you to maybe set a different, different pathway along the piece.

Am I in the ballpark with that?

Clarissa: Yeah, I, yes, absolutely.

I mean, a lot of our kids, you know, they're at that age, I mean, they're in sixth grade, so they're, they're at that age where they're starting to like.

See the choices that the adults and older, you know, siblings around them make.

And it, there's also starting to recognize the consequences that come with that, both positive or negative.

And that's one thing that I talk a lot about in my class, especially at the beginning of the year, is like no matter what choices you make, there's gonna be consequences.

There can be positive consequences, and there can be negative consequences.

And I mean, at the end of the day.

We all wanna have positive consequences, but you have to be able to, if you're gonna make a choice, you have to be able to stand up and say like learn from it.

Whether it be a positive learning experience or negative learning experience.

And so many of our kids, I mean, they have social media at their hands all the time, and they can see world outside, right?

So they don't live in that like, oh, this is the only thing for me.

And that kind of helps as a teacher because.

Entice them to think about what the world, what choices they get once they reach adulthood or even, you know, when they turn 16 and they have that option to be drivers or something.

Like those choices matter.

And so if I can teach them in sixth grade that if they show up and they put in the work and they do what they need to do in order to be successful, that eventually they're gonna be able to make choices for themselves rather than just.

Steal with the cards that they've been dealt as so many of them have seen, you know, adults in their life or older siblings kind of have to do that.

So.

Craig: Like, uh, just a recurring theme is like high expectations, accountability with the desire to make this happen.

And, and that's all classroom management stuff, but it's also, I always say that high expectations, relentlessness, accountability, I, I view that as the highest form, uh, of relationship even though people don't necessarily think about it that way because.

If I'm only gonna accept your best, if I'm gonna accept best, even like you said, meet and exceed.

If I'm gonna help make you realize your best is even beyond what you thought it is, isn't that the highest form of of care that you have?

So.

Clarissa, you're, you have all of these elements in place, but we know it doesn't just happen if you're not also doing care things along the way with your kids.

So they'll do that for you.

Like just being a strict disciplinarian self.

Yeah.

No.

Right.

So let, talk to me a little bit about, uh, the additional pieces that help make it so they're willing to push beyond.

Clarissa: Yeah.

So I think one thing that I. Really try to do, and I started this my first year when I taught fifth grade.

We had a school psych who really pushed that social emotional learning.

And I mean, coming out of, you know, a teaching college and a teaching program.

Like yes, that's a part of it, but really they just want you to learn to write a lesson plan and, you know, plan all these things, right?

But they don't think about.

When so many of our kids are lacking in that social emotional area, that they are not gonna be able to access my lesson plan or any of the things that I'm gonna teach them unless their basic needs are met.

And so I started this.

We called it a circle time or whatever.

and I just sat there and I would carve out like 10, 15 minutes usually at the end of the day, or on Mondays, it was like they were chomping at the bit.

So it was usually at the beginning of the day.

and they just got to kind of share and we got to kind of just have conversations and build those relationships.

And I noticed, so many of my kids that.

You know, other teachers are like, oh, you might wanna like, you know, think about, you know, trying this or what.

Even that little, I, we called it our SEL circle, um, made a huge impact in my relationship with those kids and being able to push them.

So then when I got to a math concept that they really, 'cause a lot of 'em didn't like math.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Clarissa: And so when we got to a concept like that, I could kind of come alongside them and be like, it's okay.

If you're gonna struggle right now, but at the end of the day, like, you're gonna do this, like you're gonna be successful because you're choosing to be like, you can do this.

I'm gonna give you the scaffolds and the things that you need in order to do, be successful.

just by building that relationship with them, it really kind of helped me in a sense of getting to know my kids and, you know, how far to push them.

But then also they just had that respect for me because I feel like they had respect for me just because of the sense that I cared, like how their weekend was or.

Things like that.

And now it's evolved.

I don't do so much of a circle every day anymore.

I try to do one like once a week.

but really we just have conversations.

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Clarissa: Um, and I really try to, a lot of my kids are, you know, able to play middle school volleyball and basketball and things like that.

And so I do try to go to, especially since I coach tennis, like I try to go and like support them in that sense.

I don't know.

I just, I remember my teachers showing up and like supporting us outside of the classroom and that was really impactful.

And so I just try to keep that so when I do ask them to do hard things, they trust me.

Craig: And really, I mean, what I heard you saying is one basic understanding of Maslow's needs, and so I. But one of the ways I can do that is by demonstrating care.

And, and on the, on our form, two of the areas that I really heard you say was, I'm developing a knowledge of each individual student through these conversations, and I'm having personal discourse with those, which means I know you and when you, when I feel you know me and you value me.

That's you're saying.

You're saying you can and you will succeed and you're scaffolding, so it's there.

But because I know you that you know me, that I think that's what really makes it possible when you're holding the kids to account on that.

So let's shift a little bit, Clarissa.

I think part of that, like moving on to your pedagogy and your teaching, like when you're.

You have a lot of pairs work and a lot of tables work and, and consensus building, which I love because teaching others has to happen when there's consensus building in there.

But your pacing is incredible too.

So do you maybe wanna talk about like, the pacing of, of, of what you're doing and also what you're doing with your, your cooperative at work so the kids are really working together and learning from each other?

Clarissa: I would say fifth and up, pacing really makes or breaks, your day essentially.

Um, and I, it took me a while to figure that out, but, the last two years, I really noticed that when I was, I mean, yes, giving think time and that 10 to two, you know, kind of conversation, they always is good for them in a, you know, Cognitive load, when you're talking about all of that, that's all important.

But I found when I would give them too much time, their like train of thought left, like it left the station and it wasn't coming back.

I've started to just.

Kind of pushed them in that.

And it's an entry task.

The, the specific, you know, scenario you're talking about, it was an entry task.

And so it's pre-taught things they've already even experienced seeing it.

Um, so they should be able to just kind of whip through it.

but I do know that some of my students were still struggling with that, which is why I had used that entry task for the day.

and so I knew that I could push them, speed wise It sounds crazy.

I don't really know, like light switch didn't go off or anything.

For me, it just, I started to realize what was working in my classroom and what wasn't working in my classroom, and if I gave them too much time on something that I.

They should know.

Um, it's really when I started to see those behaviors increase and everybody knows once you have behaviors increased, then, then their cognitive load is really not painted.

Like they're really not on task.

Right.

It's not there.

Yeah.

Craig: Pac, you said pacing makes or breaks your day.

Yeah.

And, and so you have an understanding at that age of a student, especially when now social media and all these TikTok and et cetera are also a big part of their lives.

Like how do I keep them engaged?

And you're not saying I don't do cognitive load.

Like reflection activities, but maybe have to time them to a time that works for them or knowing if it, if I make it two minutes, well, for that's too long for sixth graders.

Maybe it's 30 seconds of reflecting.

Mm-hmm.

And that keeps them engaged or whatever.

So it's just that.

You are aware of their abilities and you're aware of their loads and you know that pacing can do that.

And if I keep it super fast paced, but even like when you're asking the questions like you're like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, with your questions to the students.

But like when you were even asking all those questions, like the kids are like, you would look at that, what was going on in there as a class discussion, maybe after they built consensus on it and you could say.

Oh, that seems like we would call it receptive class discussion.

'cause one kid was speaking out at a time.

But there's something about it, and maybe it's because the consensus building part beforehand where every kid was on the edge of their seat and, and oftentimes you would get a choral response even as that was happening.

And so there's some connection with that.

You wanna go into that?

Maybe a little,

Clarissa: I like to do CHO calls, and so we, it is something that they're, well, no, but I remember as a kid having really engaging teachers and like they left you kind of on the edge of your seat.

Like you're waiting right?

For that next question.

So you can answer something like that.

And that's when I feel like I personally, as a learner felt really successful.

And so I try to do that for my kids.

And I try, like I, I do scaffold my questions.

I start with very like, low level questions.

Like, okay, what's a percent, you.

How many, what does it mean or do you agree?

Craig: Yes.

Clarissa: Yeah.

Do you agree?

Do you agree, disagree, those kind of things.

and really, I have in that class that you saw specifically, I do have some learners who are, who are low and they, unfortunately, they know that.

And so when, anytime I can make them like.

Feel like their response is important and needed and, get, kind of boost them up a little bit.

everybody in the class feels successful and when everybody feels successful, they're much more willing to try those things that I need them to try when it's hard.

Um, and so I just, I start with those really low level questions just because I do want them all to feel successful.

And when I'm looking at that entry task, that's where my brain is starting.

It's like, okay, what is this?

Right?

And so I'm trying to teach them like I. You might not look at a problem and immediately know what to do with it, but what can you start with?

Okay.

I recognize this is a percent.

I recognize a percent is out of a hundred.

Okay?

Percent can be written as a fraction.

Okay?

So a fraction can also be a ratio, and then they can relate that back to proportions and how that relationship goes.

And so I just kind of walked myself through those and that's how I. I mean, I would love to say I had a, a question coach or something like that.

I mean, I've heard of those.

I work at a small district.

We don't have all those great resources, you know, but I've learned from a lot of teachers that you really kind of have to explain your own thinking when you're doing a problem, and that kind of just entices them to.

If they don't see it modeled or hear it, you know, they're not gonna know what thinking through a problem is until somebody teaches them and shows them.

And so that's just something that I really try to do for my kids that like, if I was gonna solve this problem, this is how I would do it.

there is a point in that day when I went back and I was like, okay, how else could we have done this?

Because one of my kids I noticed just really kind of like she.

Kind of started to shut down and I wanted to go back and I wanted her to feel like, 'cause she did it a different way than most of the class did.

And so I went back and I was like, okay, what if we looked at this another way and we looked at it again, and by the end of the 30 seconds of questioning and the rest of the class calling out, I mean, she was sitting up higher in her seat and she was raising her hand and she was ready.

And I don't know if I can do something that's gonna make my kids feel successful then.

I can go home at the end of the day and know that I did something that was impactful to them, and that's what I hope to do every day.

Craig: And it sounds like, I mean, you're, you're, you're targeting students for success.

So when you're starting out at a recognizer and understanding question, knowing you're scaffolding your way up to analyzing and evaluate questions, you are also knowing.

Okay.

I know this student can answer this question.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna build success in for there, where if I jumped onto that kid and waited for that student until they analyzed the evaluate, not to say they can't always get it, but they, I set 'em up to fail.

Then how, how likely are they gonna be to go?

So you're very strategic in the terms of the way you're asking questions, which is good practice, right.

Is, It sounds like you're very purposefully the way that you're strategically asking questions and way you're scaffolding them.

Creating critical thinkers.

Like what about this?

What about that?

How do I wanna look at a problem?

Clarissa: And as you, I mean, that's the goal, right?

We want them to be critical thinkers.

Craig: No, I agree.

I dunno.

No, I know.

But the, but your style of asking the questions as you're having them look at every little but seemingly basic element to analyze different points along the.

It's stimulating critical thinking and whether it's just in that class, it, we don't want it to be just in that class.

We want it to expand it and being critical thinkers overall and especially like even tying it more to like their home lives than what we've been talking about.

Critical thinking.

We want it to carry over to that area of their life as well.

Right?

Not meant bad way, but in a helping them grow.

I am looking at our time here.

I think we're gonna shift to like observations in general, and we're gonna shift to, um, your, your school has been using the model that many schools use across the country, the Danielson model.

And, and, and now you've had a chance to experience trust-based Observ, and so I'm curious, Clarissa, just.

What are your thoughts?

You know, whether do you want to compare it or not?

It is up to you, but, people are starting to ask and get curious, so let's ask our teachers and see what they have to say.

Clarissa: so at first, I'll be honest, when they called me in for that observation, post-observation, meaning I was like, oh my gosh, I don't have like.

I don't have my notes, I don't have reflection.

Like I don't have any of those things.

Like, and so I, I remember bringing, I brought my laptop, I brought my notebook, I brought my planner, like I brought all my things, my evidence, right?

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Clarissa: Um, and then we sat down and my admin who does my evals, he just kind of walked me through the form and we just talked about a lot of things.

Um, the, I'm looking at it right now, the questioning and higher order thinking of that like Bloom's techno, like the upside down pyramid thing.

And it, that's when it really kind of like dawned on me that this was much different.

I mean, we've used Danielson, but for as long as I know, it makes you want to, like, as a teacher.

I always feel like it makes you wanna make sure you have makes you wanna get all the boxes checked.

Yeah.

Right.

Because you're like, oh, if I'm focused and I want to be my last year of comprehensive, I wanna be a four so I can be focused.

You know, all those things.

And so I just remember like pre-observations just give you anxiety 'cause you're like, okay, I have.

I think the nice thing about the trust-based observations that I like, I don't know if other teachers will like that, but I do, I do like that unexpectedness.

because to me it gives you a more authentic feel.

I do feel like even your students.

I mean, I hope you guys felt like it was an authentic experience.

'cause they had no idea you were there.

Craig: No, that's, they were

Clarissa: shocked.

And so I, I mean, I remember telling them at the door, I'm like, just sit down, act like normal.

It's, don't worry.

Like it's fine.

And I think when you do like a trust-based observation like that, and even the form is, you know, much different from Danielson, but it still has those like.

They talk about in Danielson that are so important, thinking and all.

for myself, I just felt like it was more authentic than like if I had a scheduled observation or even an unscheduled observation that my admin was coming in for, because I was kind of anticipating that, right?

Craig: Mm-hmm.

Clarissa: And so just being able to kind of authentically teach and my kids authentically respond and interact and do the things that we normally do in a classroom that admin doesn't get to see when they're evaluating.

I mean, that was just kind of refreshing.

So yeah, I, I'm a, I'm a big fan.

I know I teach at a public school, and so there's politics and everything involved and whatnot, but if somebody asked me if I had to pick one, I mean, I would obviously pick trust-based observation and not just like.

the form looks cool, but just as a teacher it kind of, it gives you something to evaluate yourself with rather than like a rubric, if that makes sense.

Craig: You feel more relaxed.

Yes.

Because they're not scoring you.

And so then you can, you can look at the, the form, which is you though there's less Aries, it's much more detailed, so you start to think about like.

What you could work on without us even saying anything.

And because we haven't put the pressure on you by giving scores.

Yeah.

You feel more relaxed and And then also it's authentic too.

It's not like a score on a fake lesson is a score.

Clarissa: Yeah.

Well, it's sad too when you, I mean, I don't know of any teachers that I work with that do this, but I've heard of teachers that like, well, I'm gonna prepare my kids.

I'm gonna teach them this, and then my observations tomorrow.

So they'll already know what to say and I'm like.

I don't have time to teach a same lesson twice.

Like I gotta get through stuff.

And, it just creates a more authentic experience, I think, for the kids, but then also for that conversation after with my administrator of like things that I am doing well.

Which again, having my mother work in the same district can be difficult because, you know, sometimes it's like people don't want to say anything like, well, maybe you should try this.

But This was more, I mean, beneficial in just like seeing what I do well in the classroom, but then also giving me something to strive for and like, okay, I'm gonna try to implement this and how can I use this kind of level of questioning, you know, and adapt my lessons from here on out.

And so, yeah, it was really, it was nice.

And the links, I was looking through my list and all the tool possibilities, those are.

As it just says, people I don't

Craig: know, on, in each of the nine areas of pedagogy, it's hyperlinked.

So you can really dig into that nine areas of pedagogy with articles, et cetera.

And that's what Clarissa is talking about.

Clarissa: Yeah, it's just really helpful.

And I mean, as, as teachers, we are professionals and a lot of people think, oh, teaching is not that hard, but it's hard to teach.

Well, I mean, even to not teach well is hard, but it's really hard.

But to teach well.

I mean, that is it.

It is.

There's a, it's a profession for a reason and there are doctorates and masters and you know, things to be had for a reason.

And I just think as a professional and as a teacher, like if we're always trying to be better, we're always trying to push our kids to do better, but we also need to be pushing ourselves also.

And so just having that opportunity to see, you know, I, I could push this farther,

Craig: Very helpful, so I appreciate that in a more authentic way than you do.

Yeah.

Traditionally.

Yeah.

Clarissa, I thank you so much.

I think there are gonna be people that might wanna reach out and listen or ask you questions and, and so if they do, would you mind sharing, uh, like your professional work emails so anybody can reach out.

Clarissa: Yeah, so my email is C Larsen, CLAR, SSE n@slschools.org.

Craig: Thank you, Clarissa.

I really, really appreciate it.

Clarissa.

It was a pleasure to be in Soap Lake.

It was a pleasure to watch you teach and it was even more of a pleasure to get to talk today.

So thank you so much and have a great day.

Clarissa: Thank you, you too.