20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

7 Jasmine Hansen
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[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Craig Randall. Welcome to another episode of 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with trust based observations. Today I have with me Jasmine Hanson, who is from Lathrop, Kansas, which I'd been now I've been to Kansas wife is Missouri, really, but she's Western Missouri for the first time.

I did get that barbecue the next to last day when I was there, so I was glad I got to do that while I was there. So anyway, that was real recently. And so, Jasmine, will you do everyone a favor and please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your. Background history, how you got to where you're at, maybe what some of your influences are, and we'll take it from there.

my name is Jasmine Hansen. I currently teach in Lathrop, Missouri. I have taught this is my 12th year in the classroom. I have stayed home for 5 years. So it would be my 17th year, but staying home was amazing. And I am at school and I currently live in Kearney, not too [00:01:00] far, but we're in a lot of small towns around here in Northwestern, Missouri.

So, I taught in a. They call it an urban community, but it's not like Kansas City urban. It's close. It's adjacent for 10 years. And my last 2 years there were as a mentor teacher and an instructional coach at some elementary buildings. I taught, I started in elementary and 5th grade, and I mentored 1st year teachers who are also getting their master's degree and working on a thesis.

Project research project. And so I helped with all of that. And I was in their classrooms a lot. That's the end. My favorite thing I've ever done, and then I was home for 5 years. And during that time, I taught classroom management through an online university. And then I've also done 2 years of clinical supervisor position for student teachers in my local area.

And then now I'm back. I decided I had. My fifth grade teaching was really science heavy [00:02:00] and science was a huge focus when I was doing that and I love it. So I decided when I was coming back, I wanted to come back at a middle school level. I like older kids. I knew I would like middle school and I do. And so I went and got certified in middle school science.

And so right now I teach sixth and seventh grade science. Next year, I'm going to be teaching eighth grade science and. Yeah, here we are.

Well, Jasmine, listening to you, there's just absolutely no way your teaching could not have been impacted greatly by those experiences you've had, especially One being a parent, of course, but, but listening to you, like being an instructional coach, being a new teacher, mentor, teaching classroom management classes, doing supervision with brand new teachers.

I mean, that had to have grown and changed your own practice in a bunch of ways. Do you want to talk about that to start with?

Absolutely. It did. Being a mentor teacher, it was through the University of Missouri through their teaching fellowship program and which was an incredible program. [00:03:00] You really learn to almost like stay quiet and you observe and you become an observer in a classroom every day you're in their classroom in this first year teacher's classroom.

And it's my job to give them feedback that doesn't overwhelm them because Teaching is so hard and new teachers, it's so overwhelming and you cannot tell them everything that goes wrong in their classroom and tons of

since it's so much harder, I just want to jump in. And we all know just behaviorally, it's so much harder post COVID, behaviorally too. I

challenging and so much goes wrong, but, and they, they kind of know that already. We know that like we can feel when it doesn't feel right, but you have to learn that small tweaks make a big difference. And so. In my classroom, I learned that, you know, your first five years are your hardest years.

And then you start to learn to just change one tiny thing. And that can make a huge [00:04:00] impact, but you have to do it the same way. 100 percent of the time and that classroom management kind of became a big focus because without management, you don't get to teach anything. It doesn't matter what you're standing up.

They're saying for 50 minutes. They don't care. And, and you have to make them want to listen to you because, you know, we're not whacking them with rulers, you know, it's not the 60s anymore. So you have to make them want to do it and shaming them or berating them isn't, I would never do that. And so they have to want to learn and I have to want to make them learn.

And so seeing all of those classrooms, being in first year teachers classrooms was. I mean, it was huge. And giving them that daily feedback to make small changes helped me reflect on my own teaching, you know, because even after this many years, there's still things that I know I need to change and adapt, especially post COVID.

I was in the [00:05:00] classroom before COVID. Now I'm back. It's a different world. It's a different world. So all of that really, yeah, made a huge impact on me. And then being able to I had to teach classroom management. It was supposed to be an in person class through Emporia State University, and it turned into an online class and teaching classroom management online with no direct contact with any of the students.

Boy, that was really difficult and it really made me analyze how I imparted information in a digital age versus when I started, because I graduated college in 2007 with my bachelor's and in 2008 with my master's, we were just starting to do stuff online, but my assignments weren't digital. You know, everything was on paper, so made some big changes.

mean, as I listen to you talk about really management and engagement and I'm hearing relationship built into that too, really, it's when we think about like on the on the [00:06:00] trust based observations, the nine areas of pedagogy, we always talk about them about improving practice, but I think, except for classroom management, because it's, it's not what classroom management does to improve practice.

It's what the absence of classroom management does to impede, impede learning. And so. It's just so vital to have. is your very first thing, which generally teacher ed programs aren't super strong at teaching kids how, or teaching students, student teachers, how to do well enough. You want to add to that?

Yeah, I've had, I've had 2 different full time student teachers 1 from 1 university, 1 from another university, 1 was significantly stronger in classroom management, but worse at lesson planning. The other one, fantastic at lesson planning, clear, concise lesson plans and their classroom management.

It didn't matter. And so the 1 that had better [00:07:00] management ended up being a more confident teacher, despite not maybe knowing the curriculum as well versus the other 1, just because they couldn't impart any of the information.

Because it's such a gut buster to a teacher when I'm doing everything I can, but I don't have been taught the skills, and so it's out of control. It just, it, it aches in

Yeah, it

when you don't know what to do. Yeah.

That's how teachers that that's why teachers leave that like classroom management is just such a huge issue. And if you don't know what to do, and you don't have that support, you you're lost.

So let's, let's, let's dig into that because in your class, I think. And classroom management is so much more than just what you traditionally think of as classroom management. And I'm going to put in relationships in there too, because I just think they're so closely connected. Because one, if we have strong relationships with kids, automatically classroom management is better, because they like us and want to please us.

And, and, and, And so, [00:08:00] like in your class, there's, there's so much that goes into it. I mean, your energy, you know, your energy is, is off the charts. And I, and talking a little bit beforehand, I know that's, I mean, that's you, but part of that's by design. And you even talked about like engagement. Like sometimes people think, well, they should behave just because I behave.

But if I haven't made a good plan or something that's interesting to the kids, I don't. Every strategy I do, whether it's an enforceable statement or whatever, or a good, quick, quiet attention signal, that alone isn't going to do it if what I'm teaching isn't really exciting either. So why don't you talk a little bit about you and how all of that ties together for you.

I, I, I'm a positive personality. I you know, we're at the end of a day on a Friday talking now and, you know, I still feel like you feel drained right at the end of the day. I'm still gonna be like, we're still going. I'm going to collapse when I get home, but we're still going because that's what they feed off [00:09:00] of your energy.

And if I'm having a, I call them sloth days. If I'm having a sloth day, they're not gonna pick up the pace and be engaged in that either. And we all have those days, but if you want them to dig in with you and Pay attention to the information and wanna share out. Because if they can't say it out loud to you, they don't feel confident enough in the information and they probably don't know it as well.

Like we talked about that being able to share information with another student is huge. And so if I'm in the middle of a classroom and I like to get into the middle of the classroom because your physical presence. makes them notice you and pay attention more. And that, you know, close proximity is gonna help with those behavior kids.

And so I might go stand next to a student and have my hand on his shoulder if I know that, you know, most of them are comfortable with that. You know which ones aren't and which ones are. And so they get that, you know, that Quick touch [00:10:00] like, Hey, pay attention to me, focus on me and what you have to say is important.

I'm going to look at you while you say it because they have to feel like what they say matters. And then when they don't know what to say, that's okay too. And we talk about that and I was like, Hey, help your friend out. They're not sure. And that's okay. Let's see what we can come up with together.

Good, I'm gonna, I'm gonna summarize some of that. So I hear you talking about proximity to the control, the importance of moving around the classroom one, because when they're aware, that just factors into behavior, but also, it also factors into my being able to check for understanding and formally assess if they're working too, because I can see it.

I don't have to guess. So that's, that's a bonus while we're doing that. But you're talking about like a nonverbal intervention. Sometimes it's a look, sometimes it's a hand on a shoulder, and that gets that kid back on task. In terms of that, you're talking about energy as well, and even on those days when I don't have it, making

to have it. You still do

bring it when I don't have it anyway.

I mean, that's, those are just right off [00:11:00] the top of my head. And then also just your energy in terms of like, I think, Like, what you're bringing to the lesson, or I guess I should say, really, I lost my train of thought there for a moment, but like, creating a safe learning environment. So, when a student doesn't, when you're checking in with a student and they don't have it, letting them know it's okay.

And there's avenues for support, whether it's through a peer, or whether it's through your support or whatever too. Because a kid, if they know they're supported, they're going to stay more on task and with you too, right?

Yeah. And I don't want them to feel embarrassed that they don't know something. I want them to learn from what they don't know. So, oh man, okay. They're not sure what this is. Let's try and figure this out together. And maybe I have, I have a diagram of the water cycle up here. And that was a student who we've talked about this for two weeks.

And she finally, she came up to me and she's like, I don't. Understand because the diagram that we did in their notebooks had a lot more imagery on it. And I didn't know that she didn't know [00:12:00] because she filled it out correctly, but she filled it out correctly. Because her neighbor helped her, and she finally was like, I don't understand.

Can you help me? And so we just drew a simpler picture and she wouldn't have done that. If she didn't feel comfortable coming and talking to me about it. And I think that's, and it's a student who's I'm going to say is a behavior problem in my class, but her Like I've been working really hard on that rapport with her and she's been trying more in third quarter and now she's coming up to me saying, I don't get it.

I don't like science. I don't understand it. Can you explain it to me? And that meant a lot that she could do that, even though I know she doesn't love being in my room because of the content. So

You know, as, as you're, as you're saying that, what, what are we really saying? We're talking about, again, the importance of a porn relationship, but we're talking about like relentlessness, like I'm not giving up on you and I'm going to find a way no matter what, and I'm going to let you know, I care about you, but I'm going to [00:13:00] help you learn.

And this is what we're going to do. And I think sometimes , I don't see it with, because when I'm on the road, people, it's not what I'm due, but I still will regularly hear about that, the, and I don't know what percentage it is, but it's a minority, it's not a tiny minority of people that will like, it's the kids, the kids nowadays, and I just, like, there can be things that are harder with the kids for sure, but, but we don't stop, yeah, so what do we do with that?

I, you know, There's a, a change in society, there's been a societal shift and I have lots of friends who have kids who are older than my kids. My kids are three and six. But I'm old to have kids that young. And so. They're, they're having the same issues that I see in my class and I know how they're raising their kids.

And so I, it's, it's more of a societal thing and that's not the kids fault. Like, they didn't, they didn't choose to be raised a [00:14:00] certain way or live in a certain environment. And so I think when they come in, I, I try and get rid of that, because it, it doesn't matter why they're doing what they're doing, or why things are going the way they're going.

My job is to respond to that as a teacher. And so, if they're really struggling to pay attention, because they're worried about something that's happening somebody sent a, Nasty Snapchat about somebody else because that happens in middle school. I don't think about it as, oh, my God, what? It's Snapchat again, which I personally hate, but years ago, I would have been just as concerned because it's a bullying issue.

It doesn't matter where it's at. It's a okay. How are we going to respond? How am I going to make them feel heard? But also. Like, this isn't okay, but also we're still going to learn and here's how we can do that. Yeah, we're pushing through that, and so I try not to let all of those things get to me because you lose.

Like, you will never, [00:15:00] you will not leave a classroom at the end of the day and feel happy. If you let it overtake you, and it really is a choice. And some days I lose and you feel overtaken, but most of the days you have, you have to choose that this is my job. This is what I am doing.

and it's, and it's okay to have a day, and I'm not even saying it's not okay to have a vent. But it's not okay to constantly put it on the kids, and it's their fault. And we talk about our job, and what do you want to call it, teaching or calling or not? Like, no one gets into this because, oh, let me change that.

We all get into this, at least I believe, because we want to make a difference in the lives of young people. So if I'm going to do it, and if things change, then we have to change to continue to find our goal. And if we've lost that, then we need to re find that somehow, someway, in terms of that. Let Go ahead.

yeah, no, I, I, I just totally agree with you. It's it really is, you know, I, I love teaching. I love working with students. I figured out. I love working with adults [00:16:00] too. So the relationships I make in my school help me. work through the problems I have with my students. If I'm having an issue in class and I have other teachers I can go and collaborate with and talk to about what's happening, they're super supportive and they'll give you ideas or they'll be like, Hey, you're having the same issue at three o'clock every day.

Why don't I talk to that student at 2 55? And see if that makes a difference. And so it's, it's a team effort, especially I see at the middle school where I'm at and we're a small school, there's only 15 classroom teachers and it, it makes a difference when they're willing to help out and help you be better.

And sometimes we don't have as strong of a team, or as collaborative a team. And then I think we've got to, we've got to look outside to like, who else can I go to when that's not there, if I can't get that team to function the way I'd like to. Yeah.

yeah. I have, I have friends that I talked to on the week and like, this happened. What do I do?

Yeah, and so yeah, it's it's it's seeking help wherever [00:17:00] you can and not being afraid to seek help. Let's let's talk about, like, with your, your energy in your lessons, right? Because I, I think also part of what factors into their learning is, is, is their planning, right? And what we're doing, and what we're doing to make that, those lessons entertaining for students along the way.

So, and, and definitely that was existing in your class. I mean, you talked about your energy, but it's also what you're doing. The activities you're doing factor into it as well as the learning, not just about behavior.

Yeah. And I feel so the lesson that you came in on it's to be totally honest. It's not something that I like, love to do. And I try not to do it that much. We're using this website. I Excel because I want them to know how to do it and to not hate it because I know that they do it in other classrooms.

And I've. I had a lot of feedback from students who like, they just dread it. And so they're not doing very well on it. And I wanted like, okay, we can do a review this way. I've never done a review that way before. Usually we do [00:18:00] something like team wise. So I turned it into team still because kids. Who don't feel confident if we do an independent thing where they have to answer on their own, they just kind of shut down and they don't get anything out of the review.

But even if they aren't able to answer on their own, being part of a team, they get that information. Still, they're still hearing it. They're hearing it from their team. They're hearing it from me. They're seeing it because we did something on a screen together. And then if they still don't get it, we can turn and talk about it and you can kind of see your whole class.

And I can see, do we actually get it? Do we not get it? And do I need to do a little reteaching with this? What, what has to happen? And you can kind of do those you know, informal check ins also with

Which is constant. I mean, that's, that's so vital to practice is that. And so like, so what you're talking about is, is one, willingness to experiment and try new things. If something's not working, how can I make it more engaging? And [00:19:00] so you're talking about pair and teamwork with teaching others built in.

And that's so, so, so important is because if, if we wait for just me to get around to each individual kid, that kid might practice something wrong for 15 or 20 minutes before I've made my way. Okay. around the whole classroom and, and where if I've got, and if I've heterogeneously grouped my students, I've got mixed ability groups, then I know that

when we're doing that, and then when they can't solve it, they're getting help from each other as you're, as you're doing it, then those, those misperceptions are being fixed so much more quickly than they would otherwise.

yeah, and, you know, not everything has to be so, I'm going to say formal and I'm doing heterogeneous grouping, but I intentionally do that for those kinds of days, because I don't want someone I don't you can't have a group of kids who really struggle with something altogether because there's no there's no rope for them to grab on to, to, to figure it out, you [00:20:00] know, and so I want them to spread out.

I want them with students. I also try and group like, is there a kind student in the group? Because that

Oh, really

Is you don't want someone who's going to make somebody else feel bad because they don't know. And that matters because that will shut a student down and they're learning down faster than anything else.

And so I really think about that, too, and that, and that's part of why, like, I want to be there because I want to make sure if I hear something, we nip that in the bud quick and I do like private conversations. I'm not a yell out at the whole class, but. Yeah, let's. Something I work on. Kids

We correct while we're, correct while we're keeping respect and dignity. I loved a couple of things you said. I loved throwing them a rope, like having a rope handy, because I might not be able to be close enough to be that rope. So a peer can be a rope. And gosh, I've thought about, I mean, I'm a huge Kagan Cooperative Learning person, so heterogeneous grouping like has been in my head [00:21:00] forever, and not that it always has to be that way, but I have never ever thought about kindness in grouping and making sure that's in a group too.

I love that.

Yeah. And I don't know if it's now that I'm at middle school and, you know, middle school comes with some developmental and hormonal challenges. And so I do, I do think about that. You have some kids that, you know, I'm going to say there's some mean kids and I want to make sure I make that group is going to be, Close to where I'm going to station myself if I'm not moving around as much or something like that.

And I'm not going to put my my lowest science student isn't going to be with one of those kids because that's just a disaster waiting to happen. And they don't need their soul crushed because they got an answer wrong.

and so really what we're talking about is planning is not just the activities planning is the people and who goes into the people on the groupings and all that. And then that's an important piece to bear in mind as well. So, [00:22:00] when we were in there, the kids were working on on different problems in those teams that we were talking about.

And then we would, you were going around, but you would also within each group, ask them what their answers were. And we were doing thumbs up, thumbs down, maybe some sideways. I can't quite remember. And then. And I think the first two problems, everybody, everybody was all the everybody was on the same page for this review.

But then the third one, all of a sudden, I want to say there were maybe two, three, four answers out of maybe five groups, right? And so almost every group had an answer, and I don't know whether this is a regular part of your practice, but what I absolutely loved was Then it became very purposefully teaching others.

And so why don't you, I don't want, I'll let you tell what happened next, because I think it was, it was just so brilliant for me to watch.

I did when I taught 5th grade, I did a lot of, like, a turn and talk and then we had specific partners, like, depending on where you were seated, you knew which seat because it wasn't based on the person. It was based on the seat. And so it's being able to go move in and out of [00:23:00] groups quickly as a classroom management strategy.

So I give them a specific place to go. I tell them how their body should look. You know, middle school still struggles with that a little bit, like, you need to turn all the way around and move close to the table. And then I want them to share out the answers with the other group, and then discuss and try and come to a conclusion and they need to figure out a way to support their answer.

Even if, and even if, and so I also think it's important if your group cannot come to a conclusion, I want you to tell me why, why can't you come to a conclusion instead of just immediately giving them the answer and saying, oh, these two groups are right. This group's wrong because that's not really helpful.

Maybe in a last minute thing, I would be like, no, guys, this is the answer. And that's where you go with it. But you don't shut them down because that critical thinking, like they need to think through all of this. And if they can explain what they're thinking to somebody else in one of the groups, I saw when they turned and talked to a partner and they were telling them, they were, they said it [00:24:00] out loud.

And then they were like, wait, that's not right. And they figured it out themselves, and the class eventually came to a conclusion. And I think that's more meaningful than me just telling them what it is, because they're not going to remember that as much as they will remember the experience of working in those groups.

So what you really had doing is you put, then you, you purposely paired. I think, I, I, let's say there were six groups, I can't remember. And you put these two groups together and these two groups together. It's like, okay, well then let's, Like teach each other, find the answer together, right? And that it's so much more powerful, right?

When it's, that's a form of it's peer to it's teaching each other and it's peer to peer coaching all built in for their own feedback to get it. And it was just. It was so, so powerful. Cause then by the end, where did they all end up? They all ended up on the same place, but on their own.

page. And there wasn't an argument.

yeah, there's not an argument and it's [00:25:00] discovery.

It's like, like I can tell you something and then I can memorize it, but that's not learning really, I mean, for some things it is, but for what we're talking about for that understanding, you know, field understanding by design piece. It's, it's when I get it and when I come up with it on my own is when I'm going to get it more.

So that you just, that you build that in when there's. Not consensus. It's just so, so valuable for them in so many ways,

well, and I don't, I don't want to shut them down. And when they, even when I'm like, okay, I know that this is not the answer at all, but I want them to feel heard because if they sit there and they don't get to share out what they think and why they think it, then it kind of lives inside them and they struggle to focus on other things.

So letting them get it out. It's a good thing. It's the same thing if there's a conflict in the class or if I'm like, Hey, you need to go out in the hallway so we can chit chat about what's happening. And they're having a behavior problem. And I go out and if I try and like, no, you [00:26:00] don't talk, I talk, you got to let them get it out, even if it's not correct.

It's not what happened. It's not whatever, if they can get that off their chest, there's so much more receptive when I am going to say what I'm going to say, and that's a,

their peers are going to say what their peers are going to say either way, right? Because they've, I, what's this because of this? Well, okay, but no, it's actually this because of this. Where if you just say me that, I might be more initially blocked at first, but because I've had a chance to share both, then that lightbulb might come on in a way where I might be a little more fixed mindset at first and resist, and now since I never really thought about this before, but you're, it's almost teaching growth mindset

that's I'm a big growth mindset person and I did a lot with it in my 5th grade classroom and then I did a lot with growth mindset just in in myself and, you know, I have 2 small children and like. It's not always going to be like this. It's not always going to be middle of the night [00:27:00] diaper changes.

We're going to keep thinking about the positives. How can I continue to move forward? And so I try and look at that with kids and I see some positive results with that. Especially with kids that, you know, they're just. Tough, just tough kids and they don't feel that on their own and they need you to support them and continually uplift them and know that if they're going to get in trouble in my classroom that we can have a conversation about it and they know I'm going to listen to them and even if I'm like why are we doing this again, they know that I'm going to try and try and take their opinion into account, I guess, because it matters.

And some of those kids don't have agency at home and so that you're doing that is maybe the one time in their life where they do get it for sure. And I just have to give a little Trust Based Observations plug and do say that Carol Dweck of Growth Mindset Mindset did endorse Trust Based Observations,

Oh, nice.[00:28:00]

Yeah, I know, right? It was a good one for me. Jasmine, thank you so, so much for your time. One of the things that I'd like to be able to do at the end is have our guests, if they're willing to, to share their email contact in case there's anybody out there listening that might be interested in potentially learning from you.

So would you mind sharing that out with everybody?

Sure. Absolutely. I'm gonna give you

whatever email you feel,

Yeah, I was going to say, I'm going to give you my personal email just because I'm going to be moving school districts. So, I'm going to car, I'm going closer to home. I got

go home. Yeah, yeah,

in there. So my personal email is Spencer dot Jasmine L and it's S P E N C E R dot J A S M I N E and the letter L at gmail.

com. And I'm happy to talk about teaching anytime.

Jasmine, thanks so much for your time today. I'm really, really grateful. It was an absolute joy to watch your class that day.

Oh, well, thank you. I'm so glad that it went well and that you enjoyed it.

Take care.

Thank you.