20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance (On the Road with Trust-Based Observations)

Macee McGill
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[00:00:02] Intro: Welcome to 20 minutes of teaching brilliance on the road with Trust Based Observations. Every week while training school leaders, Craig Randall, the developer of Trust Based Observations, witnesses brilliant teaching during their 20 minute observations. Wanting to share that teaching brilliance with others, we talk shop with those teachers, learning what they do that is so impactful. We hope you enjoy.

[00:00:25] Craig Randall: Hi, and welcome to another edition of 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance on the Road with trust-based observations. Today I have with me Macy McGill. I was training a Catholic diocese in rural Minnesota, apparently the most rural diocese in the whole country, I'm told. And while I was there, I saw a number of amazing teachers, and Macy really stood out to me for a bunch of reasons that we're going to get into.

[00:00:53] Craig Randall: But Macy is actually a first year teacher and she blew me away with her high expectations, her relentlessness, her planning, the understanding, the amount of planning that has to go in her behavior management, high expectations, just everything about it just blew me away. And I could not believe afterwards when they told me she was a first year teacher.

[00:01:15] Craig Randall: So, and we can learn from first year teachers and they can be brilliant too. You don't have to be an. I've been teaching a million years, I've had that happen. So, Macy, would you please introduce yourself to the audience? Maybe tell them about yourself. You can't tell them about all your experience of teaching, but maybe you could tell them why you got into teaching or what made you want to get into it and where you're at and what grade you teach and all that good stuff.

[00:01:39] Macee McGill: Hi, my name is Macy McGill. I am a first year teacher at St. Anastasia in Hutchinson.

[00:01:44] Craig Randall: Hutchinson, Minnesota.

[00:01:46] Macee McGill: Hutchinson, Minnesota. Yes. Sorry. I always knew that I wanted to work with kids from a young age. I never thought that I would be a teacher. I always said that teaching wasn't for me. I didn't. Think at least, and then I went to college and my sophomore year, I started working at a daycare and I just fell in love with the process of watching them learn and grow and watching the teachers create new activities and then seeing the kids those and.

[00:02:11] Macee McGill: Then I went to my parents and I was like, I think I'm going to change my major and I think I'm going to be a teacher. And my mom actually just told me the other day. She was like, I always knew you would be a teacher. And I was like, how come you never told me that? So I didn't waste a year and a half of schooling before I changed my major, but it all worked out.

[00:02:27] Macee McGill: And

[00:02:28] Craig Randall: She wanted you to find your own

[00:02:30] Macee McGill: yeah.

[00:02:30] Craig Randall: You know, you know how that works when you're that age, if your parents tell you that, that's probably the last thing you'll do. So maybe she did you a

[00:02:37] Macee McGill: That is true. That is true. Yeah,

[00:02:40] Craig Randall: Well, Macy, I think let's start out when we were in the class, the kids were working they were doing math that day. And so, why don't you tell them a little bit maybe about what you were doing in the centers that they had going on? Cause it just so, they were all working so hard in so many different ways all on the same thing.

[00:02:59] Craig Randall: So why don't you start by just giving them a little background on what we were watching.

[00:03:03] Macee McGill: so I every other day I try and do four math stations where they're working on. It's usually the same skill or the skills that we're working on in that module of math. So we've been doing multiplication and now division. But at that time, we were doing multiplication. So I had them with me at one station and we were reviewing what the last few lessons and I had some Plato.

[00:03:26] Macee McGill: So we were working on breaking apart the multiplication equation in an array. So that's what they were doing with me. And then at another station, they were playing a multiplication game working on their facts. Okay. 1 station, they were on our online program doing some of that. And then the 4th station was another fact practice, which was color by number.

[00:03:48] Craig Randall: And one was the cards too, right?

[00:03:51] Macee McGill: Yes, the cards was the game that

[00:03:53] Craig Randall: Oh, the game

[00:03:53] Macee McGill: that they had a partner in their group and they had a deck of cards and they multiplied. We were working on 5. so they were multiplying whatever number they flipped over. They multiplied it by 5.

[00:04:05] Craig Randall: Yeah, whoever was first won the game. It was like a version of War, a modified version of

[00:04:09] Macee McGill: exactly. Exactly.

[00:04:11] Craig Randall: yeah. So one thing, I think, I was really impressed with the use of the manipulatives and the array with the play doh with the kids that you were doing. Will you just outline that a little bit more for the people that are listening?

[00:04:24] Macee McGill: Yes. So we were working on. Arrays with and then splitting it apart into a smaller equations to help them solve. So if they were doing 4 times 7, we would do an array. We would draw the array of 4 times 7, and then they were working on breaking apart that equation into 2 smaller equations. So they would make the array with the Plato with their fingers, and then we broke it in half to help solve 2 smaller equations.

[00:04:49] Macee McGill: So that's what we did. We've been working on it in whole group math on paper and stuff, but I felt I've, I like to learn hands on the kids like to learn hands on. It's more fun. Plato. The 2nd, they saw the plate about, they were like, oh, I can't wait to go there. So, getting them to get excited about it.

[00:05:05] Macee McGill: And then also learning that process of breaking it apart. And then when we went back and did it in whole group math again on our paper, they were able to remember the Plato and break it apart there. And it had more of a visual for them versus on the paper so giving them a different idea in their head to.

[00:05:22] Macee McGill: Yes,

[00:05:25] Craig Randall: All of it combined at the same time, especially when they're doing all the same activities at the same time. So when you were watching that one, it was amazing because every group was super engaged. Sometimes I go into classes and some of the groups. Not necessarily doing what they're supposed to be doing.

[00:05:41] Craig Randall: And that was definitely not the case here. So let's talk a little bit about that. How do you make sure that the kids are doing what they're supposed to be doing and staying on task and all, I mean, I love that it was all related. It was all the exact same thing, but four different ways to learn the same thing.

[00:05:56] Craig Randall: And they rotate through and do it. But let's talk a little bit about how you make sure that they're doing it.

[00:06:01] Macee McGill: so I group them. I grouped them that day. I grouped them with the high students to the low students. So that, The higher students were there to help the lower students, but I also moved them some around based on behaviors. I knew those 2 kids couldn't be next to each other, even if they lined up for them to be in the same group.

[00:06:17] Macee McGill: So I moved them around those 2 kids. That's how I group 1st. Always is based on behavior. And then I try and put some of the students that I know have high expectations that they have high expectations, I guess, but they are able to hold some of the other students accountable by. Helping them do the work.

[00:06:34] Macee McGill: So I try and group them based on that. And then before we start the stations, I go through the expectations at each station. So I tell them, this is what you're doing at the station. And we go through things that we can do, and we can't do, so they know. What's expected at that station, even though I was with them at the Plato, they knew.

[00:06:54] Macee McGill: That we weren't building things with it. We were flattening it out and building near a, they knew that before they came over even so. I go through it and I try to be as clear as possible and they, I always ask them what do you think you should do? And what should you not do? Which they come up with some funny things, but they always know I shouldn't color all over the picture.

[00:07:15] Macee McGill: I should solve the equation and then color it or yeah.

[00:07:19] Craig Randall: So a lot of, I mean, really what I'm hearing you say, clear expectations. I'm hearing you say, accessing prior. behavioral knowledge, reviewing behavioral expectations, but I'm also hearing you say really purposeful planning and with the groups planning or organizing the groups based on behavior organizing it heterogeneously.

[00:07:40] Craig Randall: So you've got higher and lower kids mixed together. So that helps there, but even organizing and thinking about who are the ones that might help keep others in line. Because maybe they're a little more mature and not afraid to come out and say what's going on, all that stuff together. And that's a lot of work.

[00:07:55] Craig Randall: That takes time. And I want to bring that up, that it takes time. Because I was impressed with so, so much about what you did. But I think, maybe in some ways, the thing that I was most impressed with was everything that you did. That took a ton of planning. And. Those four stations, planning those groups, all of that information, we're going to get to the other, we'll get to the other part of the lesson later, but all of that was going on.

[00:08:25] Craig Randall: And so, talk to me about planning, because it's something that first year teachers, it can be overwhelming to first year teachers because you're starting from scratch. Right?

[00:08:38] Macee McGill: Yeah, yes, I spend a lot of time planning more than I need to, but it helps me when it gets that time. I know that if I don't plan, then I'm going to be scrambling and the kids will notice that. And then they tend to act out on those times when they know that I'm looking for something, or I'm like, trying to make up something on the spot and I don't have it planned out.

[00:09:00] Macee McGill: So I spend a lot of time doing it and then I know in the future, I can use these plans next year in the year after that. So I try, I'm spending a lot of time now focusing on. Getting it how I want it to be. And obviously I'll always go back and make modifications and

[00:09:19] Craig Randall: Of

[00:09:19] Macee McGill: things, but I spend a lot of time because I know it will help me in the long run in that, that next day, that next week and forever in the future.

[00:09:28] Craig Randall: next year, because you've got a base to work with next year, so it's just tweaking from there on out. So, I'm hearing you say a bunch of things in that. I'm hearing you say that maybe on a periodic occasion, you've learned the hard way. So,

[00:09:45] Macee McGill: times for sure when I didn't spend as much time and or even sometimes things get done faster than I am expecting. And then I'm like, oh, we have to make up something. And now that it's been a few months of school, I have some different ideas that I've came up with of games that we can play before we go to music or whatever.

[00:10:06] Macee McGill: Yeah. So I, it, all of it helps me in the long run.

[00:10:11] Craig Randall: It's a learning process, right? We're first year teachers. So, as a teacher, 1, we are going to learn the hard way. I'm still learning the hard way with TBO even as long as I've been doing education, but as first year teacher, something like that happens. I think you said it was kind of stressful.

[00:10:28] Craig Randall: And the kids misbehave, so then you go home that night, if I'm hearing you properly, and you're not really as relaxed at home because it was a more chaotic day, so you're not really enjoying your evening as well, and you don't want to have that happen. You want your time, it's your time, to be enjoyable time,

[00:10:47] Macee McGill: Exactly. And I I noticed when I spend more time planning out things like the stations and stuff, they're more fun for the kids and they're more fun for me to teach because I spent time making, trying to make it more fun for them, so they're more engaged in it as well.

[00:11:04] Craig Randall: And we learn better when we're engaged. So the time that you put into that, and it takes time. It makes the day go smoother. It improves the student learning. You're more relaxed. You're seeing the kids more engaged, so it's more rewarding. how much time do you think Do you spend outside of school on average per week as a first year teacher to get yourself there?

[00:11:27] Craig Randall: I know and it did first year teachers brace yourself for this. I don't

[00:11:31] Macee McGill: I don't know. I mean, ours were here. The teachers are here from 8 to 4 and I usually get here about 745 and I always, I never leave at 4. So, every day I'm here late and then I take things home. And then on the weekend, I spend quite a bit of time. I would say. at least 5 hours outside of school, probably definitely more than that. I don't know a lot

[00:11:54] Craig Randall: But even counting after four time right I'm talking about, too,

[00:11:57] Macee McGill: Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't the weekend. I spend probably 5 hours alone. Plus what I do during the week. Yeah,

[00:12:05] Craig Randall: 10 hours

[00:12:06] Macee McGill: Yeah. I try to not to, but I'm always thinking about things in my head to, or I'm like, oh, we could do this or I should try this. And so it never leaves my head, even when I

[00:12:18] Craig Randall: Even if you're not a fish, some pop, some thought will pop into your head and then it's the same. It's the same for me with TBO, or even I'm working on the 2nd edition of the book now. It's at 4 in the morning, that idea will pop into my head. And for me, I know I have to get up and right now.

[00:12:33] Craig Randall: Otherwise that idea will fade or I need to put it on a recorder now or it'll fade. And So, listen, new teachers listening, that is a lot of time. It does not sound fun to put in that time. I am going to throw out a broad generalization, a couple of them. I think one of the best things about Gen Z is Again, broad generalizations is the sense of work life balance, as opposed to being workaholic as a prized value is so much better with Gen Z.

[00:13:05] Craig Randall: I think being a workaholic is not something to be proud of. And so I honor that value. And our life is so much better when, this is a first year only, you're still going to have to put in some extra time. But this first year you have to put in so much extra time. And that time you put in reduces the stress at work.

[00:13:28] Craig Randall: And stress at home because it didn't go well. So I suggest you tell me differently, or you tell me whatever you want to say in response, Macy, that it adds to the quality of your life to temporarily inconvenience yourself by putting this time in. You go ahead and say whatever you want to say in

[00:13:47] Macee McGill: No, yeah, it definitely makes my day at school go better and then I go home and I'm less stressed and I have some time to relax and I'm not spending my entire weekend. Doing stuff for school I still go out and have fun and do fun things, but I still take that time to prepare and plan for the week. So I, yeah, I think a balance is definitely good. You want you don't want to only think about work all the time, but having a good balance and being prepared and ready helps the day go smoother. The week goes smoother.

[00:14:21] Craig Randall: just think like next year, how much you've gone half a year now, just think how much less time you'll have to spend next year,

[00:14:27] Macee McGill: Right.

[00:14:28] Craig Randall: it's just. It's the new idea in addition to, or the thing it's not starting from scratch

[00:14:34] Macee McGill: Right.

[00:14:36] Craig Randall: but you're seeing your kids learn,

[00:14:37] Macee McGill: Right. Yep.

[00:14:38] Craig Randall: Let's move on to then, as we, like you we were at the last part of math when we were there, and then the beginning of science started.

[00:14:47] Craig Randall: And so when we moved into that, I think one of the other things that I saw in the science, What were we doing, what were you doing that

[00:14:56] Macee McGill: It was ecosystems.

[00:14:57] Craig Randall: Ecosystems, that's right. And so, it was, really it was going to have some, you did some, really a mini lecture, a little bit of modeling, but the kids had some annotated reading, and then they were starting to do work, because they were going to do a jigsaw presentation out, on each of them having their own little area of that.

[00:15:17] Craig Randall: I'll tell you one of the things that I loved so much about that, and this is everything we're talking about is just in 20 minutes, like of these two things, but as teachers, we want to help the kids learn so much. And I think one of the things that we can do when we want to help the kids learn too much, learn so much as maybe give too much information.

[00:15:39] Craig Randall: And maybe do too much lecturing for the kids, but man, you just got into it and let those kids get in. It was so cool. Just talk to me about that piece because I think it's so important.

[00:15:50] Macee McGill: Yeah. So, when we transitioned, they knew that they needed to grab their science books and then they came back to their desks and I just told them that they were going to be each getting a ecosystem to research or to read about and I've Always try to be very clear and simple with my directions. If I over complicate them, then I notice that they get confused and they're like, I thought you said this and now you're saying this and it gets too much for them in their head.

[00:16:21] Macee McGill: And so I try to be very simple. So I just tell them what is expected. I told them they're. Paper that I'll hand out to them will say what ecosystem they have they whatever they got was whatever they got. And then they were reading through the section about that ecosystem and taking notes as they read and then they were filling out a sheet that connected with their notes and their reading and then they drew a picture of the ecosystem, but I tried to be very short and clear with my. Directions and then I handed out the papers and after I handed them out, I walked over to some of the students that I know would want more clarification or I knew would struggle a little bit more and then continue to walk around the room as they were working on it.

[00:17:07] Craig Randall: So what I'm hearing is. The learning happens with them working, not my talking. And so the quicker I can get them to, to learning and doing it and digging into it. And even then, I just want to point out that when they were reading, they weren't just reading. They were reading while they were annotating.

[00:17:23] Craig Randall: They had responsibilities of the reading. So instantly, you put more on them. You have really high expectations for them because there's duties while they're doing that. And then, what I'm also hearing you say is, So I get them working. And now I check for understanding, and I formally assess, and I give feedback as appropriate to the kids that have feedback, and that's going to be more productive than doing a 15 minute lecture on ecosystems.

[00:17:51] Macee McGill: Exactly.

[00:17:52] Craig Randall: Well, talk to me about then, I one thing I didn't know about that class, Macy, until afterwards when we were discussing it with your principal before we went and talked to you was that class has a high number of kids that Are a behavioral challenge and I never would have known So talk to me about what that was like at the beginning of the year With a bunch of kids you're a brand new teacher and the process of Getting that where you want it to be.

[00:18:20] Craig Randall: And even to the point of what you were just saying about I know those are the kids I go to first because they might struggle and that's going to head off behavior at the past too. But let's go back to the beginning and how you build all that in at the same time,

[00:18:33] Macee McGill: Yeah, well, I'm trying to build a relationship with them first, so they know that they can trust me. But also.

[00:18:40] Craig Randall: just Trust Based Observations tells us and teachers.

[00:18:43] Macee McGill: But also telling them like, clearly what the rules are of the classroom. What is expected? What's not expected? And if they're doing some of the things that aren't expected that this is the consequence that you have.

[00:18:56] Macee McGill: And if I say that they're like, I'll give them a warning. And I say, if you continue to do this, then this will happen. And there's times when you say that, and then you don't follow through with it and. Then it just continues and they're like, she said this and it's nothing's going to happen.

[00:19:15] Macee McGill: So I'm just going to keep doing it. So if I say this is going to happen, I stick to that. Even if I want to change my mind I'm like, Nope, this is what we said. This is what we're doing. And that helped a lot. That cut a lot of that behavior though, because I knew that I was going to hold them accountable for what I said and what they were doing.

[00:19:34] Craig Randall: So Macy in that, what I think I also heard you say, because there's so much learning as a first year teacher. What I thought I heard you say was. Sort of in the subtext is, and I learned that one kind of the hard way by the times when I didn't follow through.

[00:19:50] Macee McGill: right. Exactly. Huh.

[00:19:51] Craig Randall: And I was telling before about how my son works as first year teacher at a behavior school in Philadelphia.

[00:19:56] Craig Randall: All these kids have been kicked out of their public schools. And some of those kids are as big as he is, and he's 6'2 190. And he was afraid to be With care tough on those kids, but when you don't do that, then things escalate. And when you make the decision is no, what's my word mean if I don't follow through.

[00:20:15] Macee McGill: Right. Huh.

[00:20:17] Craig Randall: You want to elaborate on any of that or how what made you like, what made you change and realize? Oh, heck, I have to do this.

[00:20:22] Macee McGill: Yeah, well, it was like there was times when it was out of hand and they were all like all over the place not following anything and we weren't getting as much done. So, then I was like, Nope, this is what I said. This is what we're doing. And they didn't always like it right away, but then they knew after that, that, oh, she was serious and now, hopefully, they won't do it again.

[00:20:46] Craig Randall: So again, learning the hard way, right? But then realizing, oh gosh, when I start to do this, and when you've been doing it one way and then you change, you're going to see a little more rebellion because we'll be hoping that, well, if I act up even more, maybe she'll back down, which we did. And man, you have to have that resolve, right?

[00:21:03] Craig Randall: Because sometimes you want to give in, but you know, it won't work if you don't do that along the way.

[00:21:10] Macee McGill: Yes. Yeah, for sure.

[00:21:12] Craig Randall: It's pretty amazing how we learn from our failures.

[00:21:16] Macee McGill: huh. Yeah, definitely. There was, yeah, definitely failures. But yeah, that's how I learned and that's how I knew what needed to change. Yeah.

[00:21:26] Craig Randall: year teacher thing is we always, and we tend to learn it the hard way, is it's, we say it's way easier to let the reins out than pull them in. All right, so let's go, let's move on to one more thing. And I think, Macy, I watch you and those kids are learning and those kids know you, you care about them. And on, on our, on the observation form under relationships, we have three strategies. One is called accountability. One is called high expectations and one is called relentlessness.

[00:21:54] Craig Randall: And sometimes people ask me like, Craig, why are those on the relationship? That seems like you're kind of being harsh with people. And I always tell people. If I am holding you to account, if I have high expectations and I'm relentless, I will let you do nothing but your best. I think that's the highest form of care you can have.

[00:22:13] Craig Randall: Therefore, it goes on the relationship side of what we're talking about more than the behavior side. And watching you teach, Macy, that is you. So I just, you know, I don't know how purposeful you are with that, but I want you to talk about it.

[00:22:30] Macee McGill: I mean, like holding them accountable and having high expectations is going to help them learn the most and. Most of my class loves to learn. They want to learn the best. They want to do their best. So holding them accountable to those things are showing that I care for them. I'm giving them. The learning that they're here at school for but I, and then having those high expectations and holding them accountable and stuff allows us to have more fun during the day.

[00:22:58] Macee McGill: I'm able to trust them to play more games. I try to do a lot of interactive. learning games and stuff. So when I hold them accountable and I have high expectations, I know that I can trust them in some of those more fun activities and things versus if, like at the beginning of the year when they were not following some of the rules and stuff, we didn't play as many of those games because I didn't have those high expectations and they weren't following.

[00:23:25] Macee McGill: The rules, so then I couldn't have more fun because we didn't have time and I couldn't trust that. It wasn't gonna go to chaos. So it's giving them their best learning, caring for their learning and them as they grow. And then also allowing them to have more fun at school, which I think all kids want to have the most fun that they can at school.

[00:23:47] Craig Randall: So almost what I'm, I think what I'm hearing you say is almost like it's a. has an amazing side benefit of what some might call tough love or warm demand or whatever is that actually it makes the whole learning experience more enjoyable for both you and them and they're learning more all at the same time.

[00:24:06] Macee McGill: Right? Yes.

[00:24:08] Craig Randall: That's a pretty good combo.

[00:24:10] Macee McGill: Yeah, it is.

[00:24:13] Craig Randall: Well, Macy it was an absolute joy as a first year teacher. I just I was so amazed and I just loved so much all the things that we talked about today about what you were doing. I know there might be other teachers, particularly other new or first year teachers that might want to. Learn from you or maybe ask you about your planning or what you're doing and because all those different activities take time and so we always like to ask our Podcast guests if they'd be willing to share their professional email or contact information in case anybody has any questions Would you mind doing that with our listeners?

[00:24:46] Macee McGill: Yes, I can.

[00:24:47] Macee McGill: Okay. It's Macy dot McGill at St. Anastasia dot net is my email.

[00:24:53] Craig Randall: But of course has because we talked about how your name is spelled before they're going to have no idea You're gonna have to spell that out for

[00:24:59] Macee McGill: it is. M. A. C. E. dot M. C. G. I. L. at St. Anastasia dot net.

[00:25:06] Craig Randall: StAnastasia. net and we'll have that in the show notes for for anybody they can read it as well too. So, Macy, it was great to see you again. I hope I get to get out of your way again and maybe do part two of training and get to see you in action again, or at least say hi. But we really appreciate your sharing your amazing first year expertise with the listeners on the 20 minute Teaching Brilliant podcast.

[00:25:29] Craig Randall: So thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

[00:25:31] Macee McGill: Thank you for having me.

[00:25:32] Craig Randall: Take care.

[00:25:35] Outro: Thank you for listening to 20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance. If the show resonated with you, you can help other teachers by liking, sharing, and subscribing. More importantly, if you don't like the way you're being evaluated, don't like being nitpicked and scored, then check out Trust Based Observations at TrustBased.com, where we know the path to growth is through safe spaces for risk taking. Tell your principal about it, and change your school's observations to a model of trust and support, and join the thousands of teachers who now experience the joy of observations the way they're meant to be done.